Tehran “is the principal source of regional instability and terror,” declare G7 leaders in a joint statement.
The leaders of the G7 countries on Monday issued a joint statement saying Iran should not have nuclear weapons and affirming Israel’s right to defend itself.
“Iran is the principal source of regional instability and terror. We have been consistently clear that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon,” declared the statement, issued by the leaders of the U.S., U.K., France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan, along with the EU.
They pledged to “remain vigilant to the implications for international energy markets and stand ready to coordinate, including with like-minded partners, to safeguard market stability.”
Ukraine gave up their nukes, look what happened to them. Libya gave their nuclear weapons program up, and look at them today. North Korea didn’t, and they’re still standing, for better or for worse. Iraq was accused of having nukes, but didn’t have them, and got destroyed. Seems that if you want any semblance of sovereignty outside of NATO, you better have some nukes.
So for any nations reading along I’ll summarize the basic conclusions:
- Get nukes
- If you have nukes, do not give them up
- If you’re accused of having nukes, drop everything and get nukes asap
Do you think Israel would be bombing Iran if they had nukes?
Are you claiming that the world would be a safer place with every other unstable or authoritarian country having nukes?
He didn’t say the world would be safer. But history kind of shows it is in each countries self interest to have nukes vs not having them.
MAD safer no, but essentially disabling conventional warfare as a practical idea yes.
India and Pakistan are armed to the teeth, yet they haven’t fought a real war ever since they both got nukes.
What makes you assume said countries would not act exactly like Russia towards others without nukes?
You’re kinda making the point for them
But then we’re back to “would world be safer with every crazy person having nukes?”
Some are ready to watch the world burn
Who decides which country is “crazy”?!
The nations that decide that bombing anyone in the Middle East is lawful when they are doing it.
Also the nations that decide that Kosovo has to be independent, but this is not a precedent for anyone else.
Arabs and Turks ethnically cleansing Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians is fine. But a few Slavic peoples murdering each other because of religion warrant an exceptional intervention. But Mustafa Kemal is a good guy.
Russians are to blame for their government’s actions and have to be banned from payment systems and visiting EU countries. But Russians who work in the government and their family members can live in EU countries half the time and more. That’s justified by “killing Russia’s economy for the war”, except Russia’s war is not funded by taxes from citizens paying and accepting payments for shit with MC and Visa. Russia’s war is funded by oil and gas trade. Or by “punishing Russians and making them change the regime”, which is very funny, because the people actually part of the regime are not “punished” this way, they are also the exact group that should be “punished” for good effect, and we the rest kinda see that and don’t have huge sympathies to the narratives of people doing such stuff.
Also about Russia - those nations would decide that Putin’s and Yeltsin’s regimes are nice and legitimate and democratic when they were limited to destroying Russia itself. Again, now every Russian is retroactively to blame for those years as well, except those they were dealing with.
And it’s the same everywhere, if there’s an authoritarian regime - then just like with businesses, it’s sort of a profitable endeavor. And the process making it profitable happens in the western countries. It’s one system in which their elites have that cozy spot of hypocritically accusing everyone other than themselves of the processes they create. A continuation of the colonial system, too continuous and similar to even use the “neo” prefix.
That they are mostly democracies is not real republicanism, at least not in the last 20 years. It’s a sign of luxury - look, we can afford such magnificent Colosseum shows that our populace is well controlled even under pretense of democracy. The countries higher in that hierarchy play democracy more, the countries lower in it - less.
Say, Iran’s regime is unfortunate, but calling it less democratic than UK would be preposterous. It has more crime and corruption, true. But maybe the fact that Iran’s appearance of democracy is above what it’s “allowed” is not a smaller reason for the violence against it, than any fears of it attaining a nuke.
… I’d rather listen to what DPRK, IRI, PRC, even Turkey’s leadership have to say on what’s civilized and what’s not. Everyone is better than NATO&EU. Russia’s … eh, I’ve met some people too close to that, they stink too much, quite westernized one can say.
Religion mostly
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Lmao Hamas would have launched them at Israel and we would be seeing world war 3 with nukes. The fact that you think Hamas would be more responsible with WMDs than US, which hasn’t used them since Japan, is bizzare
Act like the USA?
US is expanding? When was the last time US annexed a territory? Did you honestly just try to make US as a better example than Russia in this context?
There’s Afghanistan, Iraq, and these days there’s talk about a 51st state, rumblings about Greenland, Palestine
American aggression and coups in various countries… there’s so many examples going back to Vietnam and maybe before.
Basically after the British cocked up so many countries in the world, it passed the baton to America.
Iran is one example of a country whose problems are directly caused by American interventionism.
You wrote all that and failed to give me one example of annexation by US. Israel is annexing Palestine. Russia is annexing Ukraine. US didn’t annex Afghanistan or other countries. The states/countries live on, sometimes better than before. There is a huge difference.
I honestly believe trump is BS’ing about annexing Canada.
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Why? Give it some thought and actually come up with a logical answer, because countries do not invade US because of nukes, but because they have the most advanced army in the world. Nukes for US changes nothing, they’re there only as an answer to other nukes.
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Give me one quote where US has threatened Palestine with nukes if they shoot back or whatever you’re hallucinating right now
The world would be a safer place if not only every country had nukes, but also every adult citizen had a farm of combat drones.
I personally don’t want to hear of NATO&allies lecturing everyone else morals. Tired of that. And I understand why in ex-USSR the perception of them like some global good guys was common - the reaction to very invasive and obnoxious and irritating Soviet propaganda.
I don’t understand how people in the west can believe that.
Anyway, no intelligent person from the west I’ve talked to did, so … kinda as it should be.
Imagine giving every potential madman (including school shooters and what not) destructive weapons thinking you’re making world a better place. Unhinged take honestly.
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School shooters usually use it as their last resort. Bullying of autistic kids is the main problem. Them finding such an exit is a secondary one.
No, school shooters aren’t using it as a last resort. They are physcopaths who feel slighted and can’t process emotions.
This is wrong. Psychopaths feel themselves just fine in the society and usually don’t become school shooters.
Shooting up bullies is a very crude solution, one that a psychopath usually doesn’t need.
In any case most of school shootings I’ve read about were connected to bullying, and bully lives don’t matter. Don’t bully, don’t get killed.
A psychopath usually plans their murders, so they’ll do just fine with a heavy sharp object or a reactive not intended for food getting into food. A psychopath will also be on the convenient side of any socially approved action.
I’ve recently fully realized that I’ve met a high quality psychopath once.
Well it’s definitely not autistics or a last resort like you claim…
Nobody should have nukes, you fucking hypocrites…
Except France and the UK of course.
Well Pakistan will give them one if needed so they kind of already have one. Maybe stop pushing them to use it on Israel.
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Israel is the criminal and everyone knows it.
Israel will face the long-term consequencea of its reckless behavior. Just not today.
A disturbingly large group think that history started on October 7 2023 and prior to that it was all sunshine and rainbows in the region.
Those people didn’t hear about 70ish years of Israeli bullshit on the nightly news so as far as they’re concerned it didn’t happen.
People with nuclear weapons have forbidden you from having nuclear weapons?
Humans are a goofy lot.
Nukes for me but not for thee
NO ONE should have them. Dumb asses.
Yeah but until countries like the US, Russia, China and the rest give them up, they are the only true guarantee of sovereignty.
"Tehran “is the principal source of regional instability and terror,”
I guess we all just have to pretend Israel doesn’t exist?
Tbf they both are…
Whatever.
Don’t care if yanks go get blown up in the Middle East. It’s all in service of enriching Halliburton and the military industrial complex. Yawn. It is 2003 again?
Whatever happened to: “tRuMp iS tHe PeAcE pReSIdEnT”.
I thought the US was trillions in debt. There’s always money for war.
Can’t wait to laugh at this smoothbrained crew of assclowns as they try to fight a foreign war. Good luck maintaining those supply chains for US war mongering when the whole world fucking hates you.
FFS. Anyway. Next.
Don’t care if yanks go get blown up in the Middle East. It’s all in service of enriching Halliburton and the military industrial complex. Yawn. It is 2003 again?
The last time they did this, a million Iraqis died.
I know. Fuck the US. They can’t even come up with different propaganda.
Even the statement is not about protecting people lives but about market stability.
They are not working for the people…
Isreal has bombed Iran
everyone likes this
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Israel is the principal source of regional instability and terror and everyone and his dog knows this.
The kowtowing to Trump and his Zionist sponsors by the client states of the US Empire is an insult to objective reality.
Seriously. We’re supposed to regard Iran as an existential threat that is worth any price to neutralize. Okay, boomers.
Please don’t make Iran out to be some sort of victim in all this. What Israel is doing is wrong, but Iran has funded a lot of terrorists throughout the years, and execute people in medival ways for holding hands with the “wrong” person.
The iranian government is pure fucking evil and deserves to die horrible deaths for what they instigate and fund around the world and in their local area.
Dude. I don’t disagree but this is not helpful. What’s helpful is acknowledging that none of that matters to the US. Our greatest allies in the region have all of what you listed and more.
All this sentiment does is manufacture concent for this war. There is one constant factor in the west asia. A constant that continues to keep countries from being able to have civil rights movements, keeps their citizens impoverished, keeps dictatorships and monarchs in power while everyday people suffer.
That constant is US intervention and disruption of the region. Intervention against evil authoritarian rule only when that countries rulers don’t allow US exploitation or threaten it’s imperialist interest.
It serves no purpose what you’re doing. Otherwise I think you should be more concerned about the US arming Saudi Arabia or Israel. Both of those countries have significantly more innocent people slaughtered under their rule.
Iran and it’s people will only know civil liberties and equal rights when they are given the stability to have those movements of their own.
Do you think the best thing for the US civil rights movement would have been a bombing campaign from Canada? No.
Please. Again, I don’t defend Iran if we’re talking about it in a bubble. But the world does not work like that. And comments like yours only manufacture consent for the invasion of a country that attacked no one without first being attacked. That’s it. We don’t need to try to pick apart anything more than that.
If you care about gay people in Iran. You should care about them being bombed. End of story. That should be everyone utmost focus right now. There is no gay person in Iran right now thinking “oh, finally the bombs of freedom reign!”. No, they are thinking “oh fuck, I need to get me and my family and friends out of here”
Sorry, a bit of a rant. So much so that I came back to re-edit the comment later. But, right now, I think it’s really important that we don’t fall for this type of narrative. The fascist controlling America are doing everything they can to manufacture concent with the Liberals.
The intentions of your comment are good and correct. But they are only helpful in a vacuum outside of the war mongering fascism that is rising.
If the only threat to Iran was it’s civil rights violations you’d be right. But the threat to Iran right now is it’s population experiencing what Gaza has for the last 21 months. Something I pray they don’t experience.
I can think of another country, or two, that are guilty of denying women reproductive health care, persecuting non-hetero lifestyles and demanding total allegiance to their leader.
Ok, which country is actively committing genocide?
So let me get this straight. Because one of the countries in this war is comitting genocide, the other country MUST be a victim of the war? Was the Soviet Union a victim when Germany attacked them?
No. Israel is committing genocide. We all fucking know this, no need to point it out. Iran is a theorcratic rule that tortures people for holding hands with the wrong sex. They regard women as household items. Iran is not a fucking victim. The iranian government needs to fucking suffer violently, preferably by the hands of their own people, but Israel will do.
Was the Soviet Union a victim when Germany attacked them?
…Really? That’s the comparison you’re gonna go with?
Yes. Were they?
Is that what I said?
Yes. You asked who is comitting genocide in an attempt to shut me up, because you thought the side that commits genocide must inherently be the bad person in any situation. Seen in the context that I said not to frame Iran as a victim, this attempt to contradict me must mean you think Iran IS the victim here. They aren’t. Now pack up your bullshit attempt to backtrack, and try to argue like an adult.
Oh wow, I didn’t even realize that I said all of that in my short comment 🙄.
I said nothing about Iran being a “victim,” so please take your strawman elsewhere.
Israel is actively committing genocide, Iran is not. It’s that fucking simple.
They’re both bad, but one is clearly worse here.
Okay, well there’s something called context. When you comment on something within a certain context appearing contradicting, it’s reasonable to assume you’re contradicting that certain context. My comment was only and completely about Iran not being a victim, when you comment something that appears to want to be contradicting, it would seem you’re trying to prove that Iran is in fact a victim.
You must understand this is the zeitgeist. The entirety of the Middle East are victims, including mullahs, Taliban, autocrats and sheikhs. Crazy how people can’t at least view it from two sides or in grey tones.
I won’t disagree that the Western-led world order has created instability in the region and worldview, but I sincerely doubt that an Islamic world order would be in any way better. Most are just jealous that they don’t get to do the exploitation
You guys just can’t not strawman… Nobody here fucking said that (in this specific thread at least, can’t speak to others).
Side note: As an American citizen, Iran has done nothing to harm me in any way, and has never been a legitimate threat to my safety for the entire time I’ve been alive. Aside from being told my entire life to hate them, I’ve seen no reason to.
On the other hand, Israel is literally committing a second Holocaust.
My parents are refugees from Iran. They’ve done us plenty. And now I see Westerners talking like Iran is the saviour of the Middle East and that the regime is a poor victim of Western imperialism. Israel is a terror state but so is Iran. No innocent people should ever be bombed, and every civilian is a victim of greedy old men getting young men murdered for resources or pride - but it does piss me off to continuously see people who don’t understand the region whatsoever form strong opinions on it based on Tiktok and Gaza.
And now I see Westerners talking like Iran is the saviour of the Middle East
You need to stop putting words in people’s mouths… I have seen nobody here with that view.
There’s a thing called “nuance.” Rarely, if ever, is anything on the world stage black and white.
So when I say Israel is worse than Iran, and that Iran has done nothing to me as an American, I’m not saying they’re “the savior of the middle east.” Not even close. Nothing I’ve said implies that in any way.
It’s a deep sarcasm that Western oil companies destabilized the Iranian monarchy, that * shockingly* wanted a piece of the pie in such a way it paved the way for islamist extremists to gain power.
Ian used to be pretty liberal and western minded, however westen meddling caused this extreme government.
But God forbid they get the means to (to use the Israeli turn off phrase) ‘defend’ itself, that would be horrendous.
Yes, yes, we all know Iran used to be liberal a very long time ago.
That ship has sailed, and the current regime isn’t great, to say the very least.
Nuclear bombs would not be used to defend Iran. They would be used to defend Khamenei. In the same way that nukes are for defending that shit stain in Israel and not Israel.
Ik no fan of the current regime, I think both Israel and Iran would benefit from a regime change. There’s nothing more moral on the Israeli side to explain them deserving nukes over anyone in that region.
But the hypocrisy is that the Western world directly caused this shit.
Iran is still more liberal than any western country that supports Israel.
Just because I want to see you dig your own hole deeper: unpack that one for me, champ. How so?
This is Western imperial propaganda to obfuscate the fundamentally anti colonial nature of Hamas and Hezbollah by labelling them as Islamic terrorists.
The real islamic extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS were in fact sponsored by the CIA.
I’m so sick of Americans with no clue about the region coming up with Hasbara inserted talking points about Iran. As someone who.lived through the lies on Iraq’s WMDs , which was also cheered by Netanyahu, it is depressing deja vu.
I had a similar response and then saw your comment later after I wrote mine. Just wanted to say I agree and maybe have a shared “annoyance” with the commenter that you have (not really them individually but more what narrative they are repeating from MSM).
I focused more on trying to agree with the aesthetics of liberals like this while also pointing to why what they do is unhelpful. I don’t know if it connects. I try to push them in the right direction.
From your comment Id assume you’re not American. So, I just wanted to give you some hope. There are a small minority of us that have learned from the past. A small minority that understand historical materialism and how to apply it to what we see today.
And, even more so, there are a lot of the population saying “no” out of instinct. Seeing the repeated history of the US and it’s lies and just going with a gut feeling of distrust. I know it’s not not much. But it is something.
Idk where I was going with this response. But I understand your frustration when someone tries to use civil rights suppression to justify literally bombing that didnt threaten us in anyway.
We just get verbatim talking points from 2003; that I heard at 12 years old and was skeptical of even then. My best friends joined the military soon after and I did not. Out of “instinct” and nothing more. So, I’d say that “instinct” during this new generation is even stronger. It’s something. Something I hope is strong enough for a better world in the future. Maybe in the shade of the trees that we plant but never get to enjoy.
What evidence do you have that presents hezbollah and hamas as being anti-imperialist?
They don’t have to have read Lenin mate. They are doing what any resistance force would do when faced with generations of settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide.
The material actions of a group and how they resist imperialism are what we define them by.
The evidence is that Israel is a settler colony established and supported by the Western colonial powers.
I’m not sure you understood the question
The fact that their whole existence has been fighting against imperialism
Resistance groups that commit some terrorism and no terrorist groups
The Iranian government is strictly less evil than every government that has supported Israels genocide, which is basically all of the West, including, for example, Ukraine. Are you going to b say “please don’t make Ukraine out as some victim in all this, they’re pure evil and deserve to die horrible deaths”? Will you say that the EU governments do for what they instigate and fund around the world?
Or are you just a white supremacist?
And not only that, Israel has nuclear weapons.
…and it’s supposed to be a secret because God forbid having to comply with international treaties on nukes. Well it’s not like they respect international law anyway right? But the ones on nukes they just bypass and no one bats an eye
Two things (countries) can be bad at the same time
Sounds like something a tankie would say about Ukraine and Russia
“We will do anything to maintain the status quo, up to and including genocidal ethnosupremacy”!
I am honestly so revolted.
I’m curious to see what Iran would have become in the next 5 years had this shit not occurred. It had the potential of becoming another regime or possibly a democracy again. Hard to say where it was going.
Well, that’s been the litemotiv of the last century on the area, support a slightly less evil genocidal asshole against another genocidal asshole.
What status quo? They are complicit
The status quo is Western dominance and power projection.
Not exactly. West didn’t care too much about other non-western countries having nukes. Two nations who have nukes borderline almost started a war in Asia (Pakistan and India). Iran is a special case, just like North Korea is. Unlike others, the two I mentioned have essentially declared themselves as the enemies of the west, so naturally west wants to keep them away from such destructive weapons
EDIT: Third one would be Russia, but there was already conflicts and a long standoff. The Russia has made it clear they can invade everyone but no one can invade them. Coincidentally, same could be said for USA.
Just my two cents, from some philosophing east european slav here.
Iran is a special case. Unlike others, the two I mentioned have essentially declared themselves as the enemies of the west,
You reversed it. The west made itself the enemy of iran
Elaborate…
For others who don’t want the alternative history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–United_States_relations
Iranian explanations for the animosity with the United States include “the natural and unavoidable conflict between the Islamic system” and “such an oppressive power as the United States, which is trying to establish a global dictatorship and further its own interests by dominating other nations and trampling on their rights”, as well as the United States support for Israel (“the Zionist entity”).[11][12] In the West, however, different explanations have been considered,[1] including the Iranian government’s need for an external bogeyman to furnish a pretext for domestic repression against pro-democratic forces and to bind the government to its loyal constituency.[13] The United States attributes the worsening of relations to the 1979–81 Iran hostage crisis,[1] Iran’s repeated human rights abuses since the Islamic Revolution, different restrictions on using spy methods on democratic revolutions by the US, its anti-Western ideology and its nuclear program.[14][15]
We are going to ignore that the 1953 coup never happened?
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
According to Stephen Kinzer, author of the book All the Shah’s Men, Roosevelt quickly seized control of the Iranian press by buying them off with bribes and circulating anti-Mossadegh propaganda. He recruited allies among the Islamic clergy, and he convinced the shah that Mossadegh was a threat.
The coup explains the current form of government, not why the government hates west, a west that is broader than just US
Religious zealots can’t be allowed to have nukes. You have to at least masquerade as a well-adjusted nation while you develop the nukes and slowly massage your zealots into positions of power over a few decades. Those are the rules.
And yet Israel not only has nukes, but refuses to say how many, or allow IAEA inspectors in to have a look.
So you agree that Israel shouldn’t have nukes.
The country founded on the idea that “God promised us this land” already has nukes.
God can’t seem to get much done without the US Military 😬
