- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
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Get ready for an Israeli false flag operation
Israel doesn’t need one. The Iranian regime has already turned the world against them by slaughtering their own people last month, and their people already hate them, and so if they just attacked outright, most people and countries aren’t going to care. They’ll just say something like “Oh no, anyways we urge all sides to show restraint”.
We have already travelled so far past the Nyquist Limit on that, the official signal is almost all Israeli-US Non-Harmonic Distortion. Barrages of aliasing travel up and down the frequencies of communication with no apparent harmonic relationships being expressed.
The meaning of “false flag” loses relevance when the true flags are just as false.
Do we really need to bomb Iran again?
Can’t we just… not?
Israel is a settler colonialist state using pseudoscience and “Zionism” which is just the same repackaged ideology that justified the extermination of the indigenous population in the United States. Israel is a settler colonialist project that’s main objective is the systematic extermination and land absorption of the Middle East. It’s Manifest Destiny all over again
Yeah Huckabee just said the Bible states they will rule the land so they should just take Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. He’s probably testing the waters for pushing greater Israel
He also said “they” is an ethnic group who descended from Abraham, but also literally anybody who says they’re a Jew because it’s religious, but you don’t have to be religious because it’s ethnic but Palestinians shouldn’t be DNA tested to prove they’re Jews who converted and are closer genetically than the Jews of Europe, all in the same sitting.
The mental gymnastics he went through to justify without outright saying it that Israel is for primarily white Europeans…
pseudoscience
What pseudoscience?
If you have a better way for Israel to forestall elections and reckoning for their failure to keep their ghetto under control we would love to hear it. Because using the epstein blackmail to force the US into starting our new forever war, Persian Gulf War III, is what we are working with here.
And there will be no shortage of pretexts to reopen hostilities no matter of peace agreements afterwards, hence the forever part. We had to cross over to hit a militant group, terror group, whatever. Every time Israel’s leaders’ approval ratings are down or they are facing a vote they can pretext up another round of Iran war.
The beauty of it, for them, is that Iran is nearly powerless to respond. They’ve a non existant airforce, rudimentary missiles and air defense, and are fundamentally compromised in their communications on a base level allowing near total visibility in what they are doing. Satelites, drones, the air forces, it’s fun killing people that can’t fight back! /s
If we want to see this stop, we need a revolution. We need to build a worker-led anti-imperialist movement.
This is the type of delusion that keeps me coming back to Lemmy
Yeah… i’ve seen how that works. Workers are incredibly corrupt, like most people.
We need something that delivers transparency with intelligence and a huge amount of social empathy as it’s core. Can’t work in this world. Globalism is here but fragmented feifdoms of horror remain all over, even in the wealthiest and best educated areas. To prop up one nation on the grounds of social empathy at the cost of others invites the same kind of problem we’re in today, and there’s simply not enough to go around with 8 billion people.
I don’t have a solution to fix the world’s problems, if I did I would use it. Instead all I can do is push for some kind of regulatory action. Again, consequences for shareholders. There should be the biggest penalty for unethical, immoral and illegal actions taken against humanity by the people who have a stake in the business. Leadership comes from the top, and if they are unable to avoid horrors, perhaps they shouldn’t have the assets that allow them to lead.
The primary enabler of fascism is the belief that it is inevitable.
thats just defeatist drivel.
organize with your fellow workers instead of making excuses to let your country kill us.
Anarchism is the solution. We have enough resources and land for everyone to have a fantastic quality of life. We just need to stop allowing people to rule over us. Make everyone equal and corruption is no longer possible.
Anarchism is the solution.
Mmmm, I’m sorry to see this getting upvotes. Anarchism is great in theory, but the entire point of a government is to protect the weak, take from those that can afford and provide social safety nets for those who cannot.
Even with our broken democracy, a lot of that still works, even though a lot more is broken.
The solution to our broken democracy is not a lack of government completely.
People bitch about government bloat and inefficiency, but you know what’s worse? Corporations with unfettered ability to maximise profit even more than they do now. The shitty limited regulations we have now? Gone in anarchy.
Anarchy is rule by the strongest.
It’d be great if we lived in some Star Trek future where everyone cooperated. But we don’t. I wish anarchy worked.
I am literally begging you to learn the fundamentals of anarchism, it isn’t what you think it is, at all. Check out an anarchist FAQ to learn more.
trump can’t reply as he’s deep throating netanyahu
Surely Netanyahu has kompromat on him too right?
Epstein was working for Israel. They’ve got it all.
Do we think that’s where Russia got it, or they have their own.
while getting banged from behind by putin.
Bubba.
Nah Putin is watching from the cuck chair
Hey, what you don’t trust me?
There used to be a satirical musical group called the Capitol Steps that sang a song called “Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Iran” sung to the tune of the Beach Boys Barbara Ann. This was at 20 years ago. Unfortunately, Covid killed the group (as in made it no longer viable because people quit coming to see them, not actually killing them).
I wish they’d try to make a comeback.
yeah US Senator John McCain of Arizona himself loved to sing that little ditty
We’re still looking for the WMDs.
We do have the receipts so we know they did have them, Iraq.
Of course we also knew he used them all on his own people if not the Iranians, as we supported him in the Iraq/Iran war, one of the bloodiest wars in history, I think over a million deaths from it. Hussein was fond of human wave attacks on machine gun nests and fortified lines.
I’d love to see the end of the Ayatollahs myself.
Supporting Israel and the US attacking them cements them in power as they rally around the flag. And even if he did get overthrown, nothing better would result. More likely is they kill him in an airstrike, and nothing better will result. Anyone supporting this war is a fool and a traitor to the common good. Ignorance is no excuse.
Many people do, but there are legitimate concerns about
- if an invasion could even actually achieve this,
- the humanitarian cost of it (aka A LOT of innocent people dying or losing everything),
- the long term effects of destabilizing a whole region and
- the damage to the rules based global order caused by yet another war of aggression from a side that is supposed to support and not undermine that order.
They want to fly over Syria and Iraq?
No, that’s stupid. Aircraft carriers are built to be portable military airports. They’re made for blue water warfare against coastal countries with no US military bases nearby. It’s useful against countries like China or India or Brazil where there are no US basis around, but that’s not the case for Iran. The US already has military bases in Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Bahrain, Oman, Syria, and Iraq. The Ford carrier is just there as a symbolic show of force.
I would assume their legal theory is “Just fucking try to stop us”
Are there a lot of fishermen out there for Hegseth to soften his murder boner on?
Yeah well peace doesn’t make itself you know.
Peace can’t exist without war, don’t you know? … wait a second …
We didn’t name it the Department of War to defend ourselves.
But you did name it Department of Defence to attack others before :).
Still funny if it turns out to be one of them streaming services things where they change the name each year - can’t wait to see what the next one will be.
“Defence war+”?
Theoretically… what would happen if Iran or someone else happens to magically sink this thing, fighter jets and all?
It’s borderline impossible to sink it. Nothing can even get close to it, let alone sink it. If, as you say, magic was involved and it was sank, then the US would glass whichever country did it. This ship represents the peak of American naval power, which is the basis of America’s hard power. A country that sinks the ship is getting an official declaration of war from congress, and the US will unleash its entire arsenal to make an example out of them.
Israel is going to attack it and say it was Iran and then they will have an excuse to attack Iran for the interest of Israel
“We have now started carpet bombing all our neighbors in solidarity with the Americans.”
No lie, the Trump administration would probably silence the CIA to prevent it from coming out and applaud Netenyahu for committing even more genocide.
Magically? Hypersonic missiles kind of feel like magic, but thet are very real.
The US would freak out and escalate the war. But they are going to do that anyway sooner or later, this is a forever war, Israel needs it for their domestic agenda, and the US party, the one fixing elections to stay in power, is all in.
But regardless if they did sink it the administration would try and treat it like Pearl Harbor and use it to escalate tensions more than they have support to do already.
Public opinion is the only thing holding them back now, and they aren’t entirely certain how much they need public opinion still given the elections aren’t reliably fixed yet, at least not back to back fixed. We can still stop them here, but the window to do so is closing.
There’s a very big difference between a regime change war like Iraq and Afghanistan and a “destroy them until they surrender” like what happened with Japan in WWII. The US burnt Japan to the ground and nuked it not once, but twice, for attacking a single naval port. That’s a very different kind of war than bombing a country as a pastime hobby. If the Ford carrier gets attacked and sunk, we’ll have a new Japan on our hands and Iran will be destroyed so thoroughly it won’t be recognizable.
Without reading an article, but I will assume you mean a magical macguffin weapon just…sinks it and no one knows what happened. The response depends on a few things.
Without its strike group
Threat assessment will show its defenses were overwelmed by the macguffin weapon. Maybe even conventional missiles - these things aren’t invincible.
With Strike Group
The normal Carrier travels with 12-15 destroyers and other auxiliary vessels to provide screening and defense overlapping. If the carrier is struck and damaged/sunk in the center or back of this strike group, without loss of other vessels, an immediate retreat and Threat assessment will be done to see how the macguffin weapon got past everything else. This would be the concern - again Carriers aren’t invincible, but how your macguffin got past so much radar would be important and the MAIN focus, if the macguffin did not do it in an immediately obvious way.
Strike Group disabled/sunk
If the entire strike group is damaged/sunk, the entire fleet will pull back to begin assessing risk of the macguffin. Damaging a fair number of ships run by the United States in a short order should be beyond poor nations capabilities, so the macguffiin weapon would necessitate reevaluation. Delay of at least a week to assess where/what the macguffin weapon is, (Assuming its a singular object) and then if the target, say Iran, is able to be struck within a specific loss ratio of troops.
A macguffin weapon like a Deathstar type where it can fire at single target position would give most Threat analysis away and the immediate questions to answer would be 1. How much energy/fuel/ammunition does it cost to fire. (If a broke country can afford a mega laser - how don’t I have one?) 2. How does it target (radar can be blocked, is it manually aimed as direct fire/ parabolic like artillery) 3. How can it be avoided (like blocking radar to aim, or like can a physical obstruction block the firing angle. 4. Can it be destroyed (is it susceptible to a strike team on land to sabotage?) 5 Is there more than one.
Btw, what if a sunk nuke just dives up and goes off?
I wrote my comment in the assumption that there is no immediately obvious cause of damage.
The assumption a carrier- with more bulkheads/damage control teams/position at the heart of a formation suddenly taking critical damage and/or sinking without any warning of incoming enemy planes/missiles would generate the exact amount of panic it sounds like it should. I suppose I kind of missed that in the original comment.
A nuclear device detonating underneath would generate a great amount of concern from the international community, especially if Iran immediately says “yo that wasn’t us”
My brother/sister/sibling in the 'tism came out strong, with several scenarios even.
Here, have some stimuli.
Or someone can pull a Ukraine and manually aim and fire missiles from land.
More pollution in the Mediterranean :(
If it looks like something that could happen again, rather than a one-off fluke, USA would have to change their whole naval doctrine. The strategic arms balance of all countries would need to be reassessed.
Could be used as another USS Liberty, though I’d assume they would go for a cheaper carrier, and it looks like Israel is getting all the support from USA it needs.
Impossible. The USS Liberty was a tiny spy ship, this is a supercarrier. Nothing will touch this thing.
I don’t want to see people die, but the US needs to suffer a wound like this.
People like are terminally online. Your hatred for the US won’t go the way you like it. If a country gets tries to attack this ship, then they’re getting glasses, like actually. The US literally flattened Japan and nuked them twice because they attacked a naval port and partially damaged it. If some country tried to destroy the Ford Carrier, they’re going to face a worse fate.
Because that worked out so well the last time…
The last time they needed desperately to bring the public support for a war around bcs the ppl were very much against a war (with financial/imperial goals).
Ohhh … yeah, I see, poor ship.
Monkey paw finger curls
Hiroshima, August 6th, 1945
You got downvoted, but with the current administration? A WMD response might be chosen. So it might lead to nuclear war… and a chain effect.
Then, suddenly…
“I don’t want to set the world on fire~” 🥲
It actually doesn’t matter which administration it is. American policy has been extremely consistent since the founding of the country that if US is ever attacked, the response has to be so ferocious that it guarantees that such an attack will never come again from that country.
When the Mexican American war happened, the US won decisively and annexed half of Mexico. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, they literally burnt the country to the ground and nuked it twice for good measure. When Germany did something similar in WWI and WWII, they got bombed into the stone ages. When Al Qaeda did 9/11, the US bombed like a quarter of the globe to make sure this group is incapacitated.
Why wouldn’t the US have a similar response here? The Ford carrier is the peak of American naval power, which is the basis for American hard power. A country attacking this ship is directly attacking the US military and threatening to undermine American power, and that’s not something that’s going to slide. If something like this happens, we might see an official declaration of war from congress, and whichever country attacked the ship is going to be made an example of.
Keep in mind Trump was playing with the idea of nuking a fucking hurricane. Doesn’t seem so far fetched.
Kind of off topic, but I’ve seen the the Ford carrier in Virginia before and it is HUGE. It’s crazy how big this ship is. It’s like the Empire State Building tilted sideways. When you see it irl, it really puts in perspective just how powerful one ship can get.
Target practice, without it’s fleet defending it.
The sheer amount of defense system its equipped with insane. It’s so big, so heavily armored, and so loaded with defense weapons I honestly cannot imagine anything sinking it. When you see it in real life it’s like a mountain floating in the sea, it’s really freaky.
Then a reminder to pay for your aiming app pops up
Submarine drone like Ukraine has used. A small fleet of regular drones at night flying a bit above the water. Iran has been supplying Russia with drones. I’m sure they have a few left over for themselves.
Against conventional battles sure the super carrier is probably pretty effective. But my understanding a lot of bigger carriers and battleships are considered easy targets for more unconventional means of war.
Its a big floating target and you only need to make a good sized hole or two before its sinking or an even slower target
We can’t really infer much from Ukraine’s successes in the Black Sea because Russia’s navy is notoriously weak. Even before the invasion, Russia’s Black Sea fleet was not the strongest in the region. That title goes to Turkey. Russia’s fleet is so outdated and underpowered that it’s simply pathetic.
It’s not hard to see why. The ships are old, run down, and use outdated systems. That makes them fragile and vulnerable to attacks. The Black Sea fleet is also confined to a small area and depends on just a couple of military ports. This makes the ships easy to track and target. All Ukraine had to do was find the right weapons to finish the job, and they managed to sink a significant portion of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, including the flagship Moskva.
The same does not apply to the Ford. The carrier is equipped with two missile systems, multiple gun systems including Phalanx CIWS, two radar suites, a signal jamming and electronic countermeasure system, an automatic threat detection system, and a decoy missile system designed to lure away incoming anti ship missiles. These are some of most advanced defense systems in the world. On top of that, the carrier’s air power alone can rank as a top 10 air force in the world. It’s also can move at 30+ knots and it’s nuclear powered so it never docks, which makes thing so agile that its actually freaky.
The point is yes, it is a big target, but it’s also a damn fortress. This ship cost $13 billion to build, and that money was not wasted. You can’t poke holes into this thing and watch it sink like a cartoon. Just getting near it is comically hard, sinking it is borderline impossible. And it never moves alone. It always travels with at least two destroyers, a cruiser, an attack submarine, and a resupply ship. All of which, with the exception of the resupply ship, are top tier warships in their own right.
That means that in order to reach the carrier, you would have to get through its air wing, then the fleet, then its layered defense systems before even landing a hit. And if by some miracle you do hit it, the ship is built with reinforced steel, watertight compartments, and systems designed to withstand explosions. Simple drone attacks won’t damage the ship. Even a successful missile hit would be mitigated by the fire suppression and damage control systems on board that allow the ship to continue to operate. This ship is designed to survive and continue fighting even when damaged. In actual war scenario, Iran won’t be able to do anything against this ship.
I guess time will tell.
If Trump was serious about Iran tho he’d send the USS Dick Cheney mega carrier. If you compare the Cheney to the Ford you’ll see how much better equipped the Cheney is than the Ford.
It will probably trip and fall then jump saying it’s OK. Gerald Ford actually like Dana Carvey’s portrayal of him.
Chevy Chase
Oh. You’re right. Dana did Bush the first. Wouldn’t be prudent.
