Yeah, comments like the one you are responding to, are ignorant of history. Millennials drink less than previous generations, as Z drinks less than Millennials. Also what we now call unparenting has been a thing for long time. I have read articles discussing not disciplining your child, and believing their natural curiosity will lead them to what they need to be successful, as a concerning trend, from the 19th century. For a much more modern example, the Simpsons did a bit about this decades ago. In a flashback to Ned’s childhood, he is an absolute terror, and his beatnik/hipster parents are talking to a specialist about it, and say “we’ve tried nothing, and we are all out of ideas”. When I was a teen, in the 90s, there was a massive trend of not disciplining, or properly educating, your child because “you will just be killing their creativity”.
Every single generation gets accused of creating the worst children ever, and they were just so much better back in the day. It’s quite literally a tale as old as time.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Ah yes the tale as old as time about people throwing their child’s birthday parties at the local microbrewery and having them run around the establishment and play loud video games on iPads.
You’re right, there has been millennia of truck dads and wine moms convening for hazy IPAs and taco trucks while not watching their five year old in public.
Ah, yes, the birthday at a microbrewery, the place where children are allowed to go undisciplined, and the genesis point of the idea of people not disciplining their kids.
Seriously, do you not understand the concept of a single example being used to discuss a broader concept?
The trend of kids acting like assholes in public in full view of their parents because they know their parents won’t care is pretty new too.
I’m not really talking about the children. The children are being children. I’m talking about the parents who are right fucking there and saying nothing.
Why do you feel the need to defend it anyway? You like shitty parents or something?
Shifting the goal post from “it is not a new phenomenon” to “you are defending it”
I have been watching parents let their kids run wild my whole life, and I am a middle aged. I can look to historical record to see it too. This is not a new thing. This the old thing in modern clothes. Do we need to do something? Yeah, but I also remember roving gangs of kids casually committing crime to entertain themselves when I was a child. This is not the fault of a specific generation, it has been a perpetual failing of humanity.
Dude kiddos running around restaurants and microbreweries happened almost never pre-pandemic. Most likely even the truck dads and wine moms can’t afford a sitter these days so they let their kids terrorize the public instead.
This is not the fault of a specific generation, it has been a perpetual failing of humanity.
I ain’t saying it is. But it is the fault of whomever is fucking doing it. Bartenders, waiters, and people trying to dine out are not your fucking babysitters.
I personally witnessed kids running wild in restaurants my whole life, I even witnessed a few straight, fists thrown, fights when they were either told to get their kids under control, or leave.
I ain’t saying it is
Except that you are specifically claiming these things didn’t happen before the pandemic. YOU didn’t notice, but they were happening. Yes I agree the cost of childcare has to do with many of the reasons we are experience this phenomenon in the way we currently are. Sure, back when my parents were kids, and young adults, hell even when I was young to a lesser extent, you didn’t see this but rarely, but you also rarely ever saw kids in normal restaurants. If you went to McDonalds, or one of the places selling themselves specifically as places to take kids, you saw kids being terrors. I have an aunt that worked at a local place, sold as a place for kids, back in the 70s, and to this day she talks about how awful it was, and how bad the parents, and kids, were. But the loss of restaurants as adults only places does not mean kids being wild, because parents suck, is a new thing. It is just the contemporary expression of something that has always been a problem. Some periods we can statistically see things get worse, sometimes better, but it has never been good. We just can’t hide it from public view like we used to.
When people my age, that are in my social circle, talk about when we were in high school with their gen A kids, they are absolutely shocked at how much violence there was at the time. At first some assumed we must have attended school in a really bad district, and when they find out it was largely in “good” schools, even private schools, they are further shocked. Even when I read about the drop in academic performance, largely noted in literacy, I often see they are comparing the back slide putting them at the level of kids graduating in the late 90s to the early/mid 2000s. So yeah, it is a backslide, but it isn’t like they are a historic precedent of illiteracy in modern times. They basically dropped back a generation’s worth of progress. Is this something to be concerned about? Yes, of course. Is this something we should do something about? Yes, of course. But none of this is new, it is just expressing its self in contemporary fashion.
Except that you are specifically claiming these things didn’t happen before the pandemic. YOU didn’t notice, but they were happening.
They weren’t happening at the places I went to pre-pandemic. Post-pandemic the places had changed in policy, demographics (toward more Trumpy truck dad idiots), or both.
If you went to McDonalds, or one of the places selling themselves specifically as places to take kids, you saw kids being terrors.
Exactly. During the pandemic to drum up business, many more places started marketing themselves as “family friendly”, and the truck dads and wine moms started to file in.
But ultimately, the management and owners that make the decisions that create these terrible environments, and the asshole parents who allow their children to behave like this in public are the parties to blame for the situation, and should be roundly blamed accordingly.
Edit: I have seen signage at one brewery that said something like unsupervised children running around is not permitted or tolerated, so there are signs of hope.
Yeah, comments like the one you are responding to, are ignorant of history. Millennials drink less than previous generations, as Z drinks less than Millennials. Also what we now call unparenting has been a thing for long time. I have read articles discussing not disciplining your child, and believing their natural curiosity will lead them to what they need to be successful, as a concerning trend, from the 19th century. For a much more modern example, the Simpsons did a bit about this decades ago. In a flashback to Ned’s childhood, he is an absolute terror, and his beatnik/hipster parents are talking to a specialist about it, and say “we’ve tried nothing, and we are all out of ideas”. When I was a teen, in the 90s, there was a massive trend of not disciplining, or properly educating, your child because “you will just be killing their creativity”.
Every single generation gets accused of creating the worst children ever, and they were just so much better back in the day. It’s quite literally a tale as old as time.
Ah yes the tale as old as time about people throwing their child’s birthday parties at the local microbrewery and having them run around the establishment and play loud video games on iPads.
You’re right, there has been millennia of truck dads and wine moms convening for hazy IPAs and taco trucks while not watching their five year old in public.
Ah yes, the long, storied history of microbreweries and having birthday parties for children at them.
Ah, yes, the birthday at a microbrewery, the place where children are allowed to go undisciplined, and the genesis point of the idea of people not disciplining their kids.
Seriously, do you not understand the concept of a single example being used to discuss a broader concept?
The trend of kids acting like assholes in public in full view of their parents because they know their parents won’t care is pretty new too.
I’m not really talking about the children. The children are being children. I’m talking about the parents who are right fucking there and saying nothing.
Why do you feel the need to defend it anyway? You like shitty parents or something?
Shifting the goal post from “it is not a new phenomenon” to “you are defending it”
I have been watching parents let their kids run wild my whole life, and I am a middle aged. I can look to historical record to see it too. This is not a new thing. This the old thing in modern clothes. Do we need to do something? Yeah, but I also remember roving gangs of kids casually committing crime to entertain themselves when I was a child. This is not the fault of a specific generation, it has been a perpetual failing of humanity.
Dude kiddos running around restaurants and microbreweries happened almost never pre-pandemic. Most likely even the truck dads and wine moms can’t afford a sitter these days so they let their kids terrorize the public instead.
I ain’t saying it is. But it is the fault of whomever is fucking doing it. Bartenders, waiters, and people trying to dine out are not your fucking babysitters.
I personally witnessed kids running wild in restaurants my whole life, I even witnessed a few straight, fists thrown, fights when they were either told to get their kids under control, or leave.
Except that you are specifically claiming these things didn’t happen before the pandemic. YOU didn’t notice, but they were happening. Yes I agree the cost of childcare has to do with many of the reasons we are experience this phenomenon in the way we currently are. Sure, back when my parents were kids, and young adults, hell even when I was young to a lesser extent, you didn’t see this but rarely, but you also rarely ever saw kids in normal restaurants. If you went to McDonalds, or one of the places selling themselves specifically as places to take kids, you saw kids being terrors. I have an aunt that worked at a local place, sold as a place for kids, back in the 70s, and to this day she talks about how awful it was, and how bad the parents, and kids, were. But the loss of restaurants as adults only places does not mean kids being wild, because parents suck, is a new thing. It is just the contemporary expression of something that has always been a problem. Some periods we can statistically see things get worse, sometimes better, but it has never been good. We just can’t hide it from public view like we used to.
When people my age, that are in my social circle, talk about when we were in high school with their gen A kids, they are absolutely shocked at how much violence there was at the time. At first some assumed we must have attended school in a really bad district, and when they find out it was largely in “good” schools, even private schools, they are further shocked. Even when I read about the drop in academic performance, largely noted in literacy, I often see they are comparing the back slide putting them at the level of kids graduating in the late 90s to the early/mid 2000s. So yeah, it is a backslide, but it isn’t like they are a historic precedent of illiteracy in modern times. They basically dropped back a generation’s worth of progress. Is this something to be concerned about? Yes, of course. Is this something we should do something about? Yes, of course. But none of this is new, it is just expressing its self in contemporary fashion.
They weren’t happening at the places I went to pre-pandemic. Post-pandemic the places had changed in policy, demographics (toward more Trumpy truck dad idiots), or both.
Exactly. During the pandemic to drum up business, many more places started marketing themselves as “family friendly”, and the truck dads and wine moms started to file in.
But ultimately, the management and owners that make the decisions that create these terrible environments, and the asshole parents who allow their children to behave like this in public are the parties to blame for the situation, and should be roundly blamed accordingly.
Edit: I have seen signage at one brewery that said something like unsupervised children running around is not permitted or tolerated, so there are signs of hope.