• almost_genocide@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Well, notably, most of the Jewish population are not Israeli.

    They are though. Most of them have dual citizenship.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      Citation?

      Wikipedia says there are 960,000 jews in NYC.

      This says there are ~30,000 Israelis in New York State.

      This has similar figures.

      So, on the high end, ~3% of Jews in NYC are Israeli.

      • almost_genocide@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Your first source doesn’t specify how they’re defining “Israeli” and whether they’re including those with dual citizenship.

        Your second source says

        By contrast, demographic compilations such as World Population Review list state-level counts of Israelis (for example, roughly 32,071 in New York state and about 30,566 in California), which suggest far smaller base numbers if one focuses strictly on Israeli-born residents recorded in U.S. data [4].

        It does not account for people applying for Israeli citizenship after being born in the U.S. meaning 32,000 is a lower end and likely a smaller percentage of the entire population of dual citizenship holders.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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          1 day ago

          You and I are reading that part you quoted very differently. I’m reading it to say that the actual Israel-born people are far lower, because this number includes others, presumably dual citizens.

          Regardless, you have provided zero sources, and these are the closest I’ve seen, and the number is far lower than 50%.

          I also wouldn’t personally include a dual citizen who has never lived in Israel. They allow any person of Jewish descent to apply for dual citizenship. It hardly makes you Israeli if you’ve never lived there, no matter what the paperwork says. I could write a document that says I’m a Moon person, but that doesn’t mean that I’m actually a person from the moon.

          • almost_genocide@lemmy.world
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            24 hours ago

            I also wouldn’t personally include a dual citizen who has never lived in Israel.

            Statements like this make me think you’re operating from an undisclosed bias. You wouldn’t even blink if I called them “American”. Your bias is especially suspicious when you close it with ridiculous statements like the following:

            I could write a document that says I’m a Moon person, but that doesn’t mean that I’m actually a person from the moon.

            We’re not talking about moon people, and we’re not talking about you. We’re talking about two sovereign governments recognizing an individual as a citizen of that country.

            Americans are currently being treated as second class citizens within our own country as numerous U.S. politicians prioritize the interests and needs of Israelis. Dual citizens to Israel are participants in this egregious behavior whether they like it or not.

            • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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              23 hours ago

              Statements like this make me think you’re operating from an undisclosed bias. You wouldn’t even blink if I called them “American”.

              Because they live in America! If they’ve never lived in Israel, how are they Israeli? If you call someone a Russian who’s never stepped foot in Russia and their family isn’t from there then I’d call you crazy. Why does it change when it’s Israel?

              Americans are currently being treated as second class citizens within our own country as numerous U.S. politicians prioritize the interests and needs of Israelis.

              Yes, and I’m not sure how that’s relevant. If anything, it means we shouldn’t just accept the idea these people are Israeli. It gives influence to Israel they don’t deserve.

              • almost_genocide@lemmy.world
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                23 hours ago

                Because they live in America! If they’ve never lived in Israel, how are they Israeli?

                Because they’re a citizen of Israel.

                It gives influence to Israel they don’t deserve.

                … Israel has direct control over who is Israeli.

                Again, you seem highly motivated to dismiss this without any apparent stake. What aren’t you telling me about your biases here?

                • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                  23 hours ago

                  Again, you seem highly motivated to dismiss this without any apparent stake. What aren’t you telling me about your biases here?

                  My bias is in reality, not politic. Politics influence reality, but they are not reality. Again, I can make a document that says I’m a citizen of wherever I want. Does that make it true? Even if that government agrees with it, does that make it real?

                  If they aren’t part of the culture of that group (no, Israel culture does not equal judeism), how does it make sense to describe them as a member of that culture? If you actually immigrate to another country many of the people will never see you as fully a member of that culture, because you didn’t grow up immersed in it.

                  You continously saying “you’re biased” to not engage with what I’m saying is annoying. Everyone is biased. You’re biased to think that any claim of citizenship to Israel makes them actually a part of Israeli society. If you accept every claim every government makes then sure, they’re Israeli. If you think that they actually need to be a part of the culture, they aren’t. Governments agree on stuff all the time that the people don’t agree with. A government document doesn’t create reality.