“Oh but she’s bad because some reason, you’re better of not voting and just lying belly up so fascists can ruin everything faster” , “the democrats are just the same as republicans, so we shouldn’t even try anything”, “I won’t support genocide so I won’t oppose even more genocide”, “it doesn’t matter anymore we can’t do anything, it’ll be better if we let the fascists win and wait until everything is in ruins”
Then people arguing againstThat’s about how these comment sections always go lmao
I’m not voting for AOC because I’m voting for AOB, the prototype
“Nobody earns a billion dollars”.
Don’t tell me that doesn’t resonate with everyone.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t.
with the DNC inability to even acnknowledge election autopsy for 2024, i dont have high hopes for her. mark kelly would be a better candidate, and nobody trusts NEWSOME at all.
Since the 2 comments here have negative votes, I’ll go ahead and say: Good! You need some radical shit happening USA, and AOC is a good start.
Worst part is that for a rather large part of Europe, what she and Bernie want isn’t even that radical.
At least for Scandinavia, they’d be center-left.Just shows how incredibly different we are politically
If we manage to get out of this democratically, it won’t be with one huge sweeping swing all the way to what the rest of the world considers the left. Even something vaguely resembling the left from the perspective of an actually functional country would be an insane first step toward fixing this country.
AOC votes against striking workers, she isn’t any kind of leftist.
the workers asked them to, that’s how cucked labor is in the US
NO TRUE LEFTIST am I right?
She’s currently the most left candidate with a chance. The Overton window is shifted and we’d be fuckin stupid to wait for “the perfect candidate”
If AOC is on the ticket, I can’t see how I could vote for someone else
I heard the same thing about Obama
Way too early. The person who is in the lead as a normal primary begins, is NEVER the final nominee.
Uh, Joe Biden was in the lead from the start.
did you fall out of a coconut tree look where we are
Doesn’t change the fact that someone can be - and has been - in the lead as a normal primary began, and still go on to become the final nominee. The battle ahead is tough enough; there’s no point in being so pessimistic that we make up false statistics to feel even more hopeless.
So, trump will win again…
If we get another centrist dem, yeah.
Nah, if Donnie gets to run for a third term, so does Barrack.
Most of our fellow Americans are massively misogynistic and its been highlighted twice in the last 10 years by the fact that Trump won the presidential election against women. I’m saying this as a massive fan of AOC. I identify pretty strongly with her open aggression towards backwards thinking.
This is such a bad, and bullshit, take. Half of male candidates lose too. The odds of 2/2 female candidates losing is pretty damn high, and one of those candidates didn’t even have 99% of the campaign, and she still wasn’t that far off.
Those two candidates were just shit candidates. They were even more shit than the average Democrat candidate. They didn’t lose because they were women. They lost because they campaigned on status-quo, neoliberalism, pro-corporate ideas that inspired no one. AOC isn’t that. The only thing they have in common is being women, and it’s a complete fabrication to say there’s any solid evidence those other candidates lost because they’re women.
Ah, yes, because Biden had such radical forward thinking progressive views. He was in no way a status-quo, pro-corporate candidate that didn’t inspire anyone…
Biden actively pilfered Bernie’s platform after winning the primary, so he was a forward thinking progressive compared to Harris and Hillary. Harris in particular explicitly ran to the right of Biden; she wasn’t exactly subtle about this. Perhaps more importantly, however, he had COVID on his side. Plenty of voters (33% of all voters and 57% of Biden voters) considered competent handling of COVID one of their two most important issues when voting; if COVID hadn’t happened or had happened under Biden’s watch Trump would’ve wiped the floor with him.
I think it’s more along the lines of Hillary and Kamala were just too meh of a candidate to actually get people out to vote. I think AOC even though generally not as big tent as the previous two will still perform really well because of the amount of billing willing to go out and vote for her.
Now that people are talking about a progressive woman running, women can’t win. Until such time as Harris announces her candidacy for 2028, then we all must get in line to vote for genocide again.
We weren’t given a choice in the matter when Harris was running. I wanted a primary but didn’t get it. I had the same sentiment when it was rumored Harris would be the nomination. When it was official, I unenthusiastically supported her campaign and put aside my pessimism to avoid another Trump presidency.
I disagree, I think Hillary and Kamala were bad candidates and covering it up with blaming it on misogyny is actively harmful.
Hillary and Kamala were bad candidates. I didn’t cover that up because I agree. They were the equivalent of a hangover fart in a sauna far as presidential nominations go, but I disagree that their loss wasn’t spurred at least partially by a growing amount of misogyny in society.
“Growing amount of misogyny” compared to what time exactly?
We never lived in a female utopia, but there’s an alarming trend of teenagers that are being influenced by the man-o-sphere so 2015 onward.
Ah yes and those teenagers vote in elections right? It’s not the boomers who mainly vote?
Compared to when a centrist woman was running. Americans are only conveniently bigots against whichever progressive is running at the time. Sanders in 2016? “75 is too old! No one will vote for him!” Biden in 2020? “How DARE you say that 78 is too old!”
Hilary and Kamala were dogshit candidates.
Hard agree.
Factually incorrect, as evidenced by the fact that Hillary won the popular vote.
The problem isn’t running women. It’s running women who are unscrupulous and/or shitty at politics. Harris couldn’t even make it out of Iowa in 2016, so it was evidently a stupid call to let our brain-damaged former president anoint her as a successor without a primary.
Beware of ANYONE going around spouting the “we can’t run AOC because WOMEN ALWAYS LOSE! Just look at the LAST TWO TIMES!” bullshit
As if Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris were perfect candidates offering anything more than “imagine how bad Trump would be!”
“The Most Lethal Millitary”
“Nothing will fundamentally change”
“Pokemon Go!-to-the-polls”
I mean come the fuck on.
Centrists are happy to hold back all women in order to stop one woman.
“Pokemon Go to the polls” was just a silly meme. I think voters wanted somebody to the left of Obama, and Hillary felt like a big step back to the '90s.
Dissing Bernie’s platform didn’t help. One key moment I remember was her saying that Medicare For All was something that would “never, ever happen”. Instead of adapting her platform to win over Bernie’s voters, she just dismissed it completely as foolish pipe dreams. Just really tone deaf and smug about it.
One key moment I remember was her saying that Medicare For All was something that would “never, ever happen”.
I honestly hope it happens in my lifetime. Just for the sheer delight of gloating at centrists that the default is no longer “siphon your paltry amassed wealth to billionaires and then die.”
Agreed. It’s like people think these candidates were above reproach despite the very obvious flaws.
George W Bush once said that if the popular vote mattered he’d campaign in Texas.
No shit it doesn’t matter, but it does demonstrate a flaw in LDF’s point.
Not really. That’s kind of the point of the quote. If the popular vote actually counted it would radically change the way elections are run and campaigned in. There’s no telling how that election would change if the popular vote mattered.
That election is pretty interesting for instance because Hillary made massive mistakes in not campaigning in certain swing States. Or at least campaigning enough. Michigan being the main one. Now maybe that means in a universe in which popular votes mattered she would win. Or maybe it means in a universe where popular votes matter, Trump would campaign in places that he didn’t before and get a lot more votes. The entire concept is altered dramatically by that key fact.
Either way the point is you can’t just assume it would be the same because clearly it would not.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. Have a nice evening.
Aight. Cool. Wanna bet democracy on it?
BlueMaga loves saying that Democracy is over if they lose the election, then losing the election.
Always with the platitudes.
You were fine with democracy being flushed down a toilet when Hillary was rigging primaries against Bernie or when Dems sue Greens off the ballot at the state level.
Was I? Cause I’m pretty sure I strongly campaigned for Bernie during the primaries even after Super Tuesday when the race pretty much ended. My voting didnt take place until the 15th and I still put his name on my ballot. Then when the presidential election rolled around I voted for Bernie again as a write-in.
You can try to put me into some nice little predefined box, but I’ve its not going to prove your point. My point is simple. If we for some reason need to run against Trump again in 2028 do you feel confident beyond doubt that swing state voters are going to support AOC or any other female candidate? Cause in case you haven’t learned this yet, unless you live in Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania or Michigan…our votes don’t really matter. And quite a few of those states are pretty rural.
I mean you also see conservatives vote for people like Boebert and MTG. Misogynists, surprisingly, will reliably prioritize their other ideals over whether to put a woman in power.
Interesting point. I do think there’s a sort of power dynamic at play there. They see the way they campaign against women’s rights and label them as one of the “good ones” that will show women that they can have higher positions in society if they submit. Maybe, hopefully, my assessment is off base.
If we for some reason need to run against Trump again in 2028 do you feel confident beyond doubt that swing state voters are going to support AOC or any other female candidate?
Women won senate races in three of the swing states Kamala lost, so clearly gender wasn’t the problem.
I am confident beyond a reasonable doubt that AOC would beat Trump, if only because Trump would be an incredibly weak candidate. I’d love for him to try.
I’m also confident that the Democrats are at risk of losing an entire generation (both in the short and long terms) the longer they keep offering uninspiring candidates and refusing to give any policy concessions to the left, especially those popular with young voters.
Your argument about female senators winning in swing states has the most merit I’ve seen so far. I’ve got to give that too you. But it does worry me that those are elections that are localized to some degree. A national election is going to garner way more negative sentiment from the Bible belt.
In a perfect society I would absolutely love for AOC to be the first female president in 2028. The realist in me understands that if you were to take everything about her and put it into a white male, they would garner more votes and be more likely to win. I care deeply about being able to elect the first female president in history, but I care more about saving the lower and middle class. I don’t care who does it. Just that it gets done and we can start to leave predatory capitalism behind.
Confidently incorrect. Popular vote doesn’t win elections and red state men don’t vote for women.
I say this as a huge fan of AOC, I think she should be Veep and have the POTUS leave at the start of the second admin. Then let her run once (twice?) more.
Popular vote doesn’t win elections and red state men don’t vote for women.
Red state men don’t vote for democrats either. Maybe you should try to win gettable votes instead of making excuses for shutting out candidates you don’t want.
I say this as a huge fan of AOC
Anyone else not buying this?
Anyone else not buying this?
Given that they’re a well established right wing Zionist, no, I’m not buying this
Explain your prediction?
Maybe they could make a system where people can vote for who they think would be a good candidate for the party, and then the party members can agree to vote for that candidate
No woman has won a presidential race in the United States.
The two women who made credible attempts at becoming president also happened to be utterly terrible politicians, but I’m sure that had nothing to do with the outcome.
Okay, so question: Why, in two out of the last three election cycles, has the DNC put forward “utterly terrible politicians” as the party leader and candidate for the world’s highest office?
Because a non-terrible candidate would do popular things they don’t want to do? What even is this question?
So either AOC is a terrible politician or the DNC won’t push her.
I mean it’s fucking obviously the latter? What’s even your point here?
The DNC likely won’t push her, they’ll push Newsom or Harris (she’s already mentioned she’s thinking about running again)
Because if they can’t win with their corpo zombie zionist center-right candidate, they’d rather lose and play feckless controlled “opposition” than do anything to jeopardize their gravy train with a progressive.
Uh huh. Keep going.
Going back to reddit
Granted, not many have made it to the general election as the candidate of a party with a chance.
Both that have lost to Donald Trump.
EDIT: Looks like I’m wrong and AOC changed her stance on Israel. Now the whole Democratic Party needs to do the same.
Probably better than Greasy Gavin, but still voted in favor of Israel IIRC.
Oh fuck off, this is how you get Trump 2.0
BlueMaga has convinced themselves that Trump is the result of anyone disagreeing with them ever.
Trump probably lost both the primary in 2016 and general elections both times, but we will never know for sure because most of the vote counts were not counted by humans in easy to understand ways.
Real democracies have ways to count ballots everyone is ok with, recounts are allowed. Witnesses standing in for each candidate see the counting take place and can ask for a do over.
Here, in the USA, many people see such things as quant and old fashioned; most votes are counted in literally mysterious ways; by things run by oligarchs or the very people invested in winning. And recounts are often not allowed. And often when recounts are done it’s just asking the above companies if things are ok.
Things are not ok as shown by United Nations tests to detect mass fraud, and exit polls as well as polling data before elections.
But anyone trying to have a discussion about this is automatically not part of mainstream politics. I remember huge tech conventions about this subject I am talking about ; but all were soundly ignored by all parties and mainstream media.
In fact, the price of participation in mainstream politics in real life or social media, is turning a blind eye to all this.
And that is how you get a Trump. Followed by lame controlled opposition, followed by another Trump.
I think most Americans do not understand democracy is both voting and making sure that vote is accurately counted. In some states it is.
But honestly, I don’t think Americans as a people can do democracy.
Yeah but apparently she later changed her stance. I don’t remember the details but it’s quite recent.
I hadn’t heard that. Will need to read up on it.
Last I read she was doing the whole bullshit “I support defensive weapons” nonsense that Dems started pushing when it became clear that people were pissed about the genocide and AIPAC.
No, she changed her stance. It’s really frustrating that people like you feel the need to try to sway people’s opinions and are also totally wrong about the reality of the situation. At least you could keep on top of the information, if you actually cared. You don’t care though.
This happened quite a while ago and you only heard about the bad thing because people wanted you to be apathetic. You’re attempting to spread that same apathy to others. That’s how we end up getting the same thing over and over. It’s easy to make people on the left not participate because “they’re all bad candidates.” They aren’t all bad though, but it’s easy to take one thing and blow it up, especially when you aren’t tied to reality.
Not at all. If I’m wrong I like being corrected. (Hence why I said I need to read up on it, which maybe you skipped?)
For the most part I appreciate AOC, at least rhetorically (because too much of the time she’s voted with the genociders), but at the same time I’m not a mind reader nor omniscient. Definitely not apathetic either, but also not a political junkie.
So maybe stop wagging the finger and pushing away voters who might actually support your side if you weren’t such an insufferable jerk.
If the reason someone doesn’t support my side is because I am a little bit mean, then they were not ever on my side to begin with.
If being an asshole is so important to you that you’d drive away people who support your side, you’re the problem. Not them.
Grow up and be a reasonable person. “Support me even though I obviously hate you” is an absurd way to approach people if you honestly expect to create change.
LOL
How quickly people on this thread forget that the American people are sick and tired of funding the genocide while they themselves can’t afford a trip to the grocery store, and maybe it’s an issue Dems should take into consideration since it (arguably) sunk the Harris campaign.
Yeah but a lot of american people are also zionists so it’s not so simple
No clue why you’re gettimg downvoted. Sometimes it feels like Lemmy exists in this weird quasi liberal bubble where they think leftist=tankie. Like do the people replyimg to go not understand that the DNC has a record low approval rating as well?
There are a lot of Reddit libs migrating here as that platform enshittifies who haven’t had their awakening yet. They still think they’re left and progressive, or - perhaps more accurately - that the DNC is the progressive, left-leaning choice; when in reality it’s at best a center-right party with an increasing number of obvious incidents of being controlled opposition when it comes to a number of issues (including and especially Israel)
Yeah like whoopsie we almost stopped Trump from spending literally all the money on bombing Iran for basically no fucking reason, but ONE Democrat broke ranks AGAIN guys? Oh, John Fetterman? Again? Oh jeez, well we tried guys, it just wasn’t in the cards. Maybe if you vote Blue no matter who even harder next time we can write a sternly-worded-enough bill to condemn these actions!
Anyway I’m ranting but they need to make that journey. It’s not enough and it never will be, the DNC. The best for now is to use it as a launching platform for actual progressives and leftists.
sick and tired of funding the genocide
#bothSides
And it begins again
