Again when comparing with the Georgio-Russian war, the objectives are roughly the same. “Denazification” isn’t real, it’s just something to sell the war to people who would be more hesitant about it. It’s the same style rhetoric that Israel uses about Hamas.
Denazification is very real, as is the repression of Russian speakers in Ukraine. Not only that, but plenty of people in Russia have family ties with eastern Ukraine. Meanwhile, your comparisons with Georgia are superficial to the point of being laughable. You clearly lack any actual understanding of the root causes, and I would encourage you to spend a bit of time actually learning about them.
Furthermore it shows that Georgia was a bit of a failure in regarding to the war goals. Lavrov quietly admitted in 2019 that if Georgia enters NATO, Russia would not start a war. That is really the only specific geopolitical reason they have to continue the SMO.
Georgia does not carry nearly the same relevance for Russia as Ukraine does, and anybody who knows even a tiny bit of history would understand why. Russia has been invaded via Ukraine multiple times in the past. Having NATO build up military infrastructure in Ukraine is a red line for Russia.
I would encourage you to spend a bit of time actually learning about the subject instead of wasting time debating it out of ignorance.
Yeah I think we’re done here considering the amount of times you’ve made up arguments that you thought I was arguing and then responded to those. This is just egregious here:
Georgia does not carry nearly the same relevance for Russia as Ukraine does … I would encourage you to spend a bit of time actually learning about the subject instead of wasting time debating it out of ignorance.
Yeah I literally said this multiple times, in multiple ways with different forms of evidence. You have literally just been ignoring it.
Compared to Georgia, the Russian state did not need the full court press to sharpen the ideological lines between Russia and Georgia simply because Russians did not care as much. Ukraine is a different story because West of Moscow you will find many people who have family living between Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. Caucuses are culturally different and aren’t as intermixed between Russia (there’s something like 100k Georgians in RF by the official census mostly in Moscow), so there was no good feelings, cultural similarity and familial bonds to break.
It’s incredibly funny for you to tell me to “do my own research” when the Georgio-Russian war was literally done out of the same big bullet points:
Protecting Russian speaking minority.
NATO buffer zone.
This has been admitted multiple times by multiple members of Russian government both pre and post war. In fact if you knew anything about the Georgio-Russian war you’d know that the cause of it was actually NATO escalation when Poland proposed extending Georgia a accelerated MAP in 2008 during the separatist crisis but before any actual invasion. Meanwhile the NATO MAP in 2008 Ukraine which was requested by Ukraine was quashed by Russian influence (which is ultimately what is quashing NATO MAP plans in Georgia to this day). If anything the escalation from 2014 to SMO looks more like them being butt hurt about losing Maidan so badly. The cultural war goals in the SMO are the same type of shit they said during Chechnya about Muslims. In Chechnya they ended up allying with the Kadyrovs one of the “Islamist” “terrorist” “tribes” they were denouncing.
Either way this is no longer productive and I’m disengaging. If we’re giving each other debater advice, I suggest next time you argue against my actual argument (removing Putin just like removing any head of state in reality creates a power vacuum, and in Russia that power vacuum is uniquely sizable because Putin’s real constituency is an oligarchy that agreed to his leadership as a compromise between all of them) not an adjacent argument that you’ve constructed that you find to be an easier target. ☮
I love how you claim that basic facts of the situation are “made up” arguments while trying to create some sort of equivalence between the situation in Ukraine and Georgia. Bye.
Denazification is very real, as is the repression of Russian speakers in Ukraine. Not only that, but plenty of people in Russia have family ties with eastern Ukraine. Meanwhile, your comparisons with Georgia are superficial to the point of being laughable. You clearly lack any actual understanding of the root causes, and I would encourage you to spend a bit of time actually learning about them.
Georgia does not carry nearly the same relevance for Russia as Ukraine does, and anybody who knows even a tiny bit of history would understand why. Russia has been invaded via Ukraine multiple times in the past. Having NATO build up military infrastructure in Ukraine is a red line for Russia.
I would encourage you to spend a bit of time actually learning about the subject instead of wasting time debating it out of ignorance.
Yeah I think we’re done here considering the amount of times you’ve made up arguments that you thought I was arguing and then responded to those. This is just egregious here:
Yeah I literally said this multiple times, in multiple ways with different forms of evidence. You have literally just been ignoring it.
It’s incredibly funny for you to tell me to “do my own research” when the Georgio-Russian war was literally done out of the same big bullet points:
This has been admitted multiple times by multiple members of Russian government both pre and post war. In fact if you knew anything about the Georgio-Russian war you’d know that the cause of it was actually NATO escalation when Poland proposed extending Georgia a accelerated MAP in 2008 during the separatist crisis but before any actual invasion. Meanwhile the NATO MAP in 2008 Ukraine which was requested by Ukraine was quashed by Russian influence (which is ultimately what is quashing NATO MAP plans in Georgia to this day). If anything the escalation from 2014 to SMO looks more like them being butt hurt about losing Maidan so badly. The cultural war goals in the SMO are the same type of shit they said during Chechnya about Muslims. In Chechnya they ended up allying with the Kadyrovs one of the “Islamist” “terrorist” “tribes” they were denouncing.
Either way this is no longer productive and I’m disengaging. If we’re giving each other debater advice, I suggest next time you argue against my actual argument (removing Putin just like removing any head of state in reality creates a power vacuum, and in Russia that power vacuum is uniquely sizable because Putin’s real constituency is an oligarchy that agreed to his leadership as a compromise between all of them) not an adjacent argument that you’ve constructed that you find to be an easier target. ☮
I love how you claim that basic facts of the situation are “made up” arguments while trying to create some sort of equivalence between the situation in Ukraine and Georgia. Bye.