Sure let me just rig up a suicide vest and go blow up my local town hall, that will surely be productive.
People want to do something but telling a single individual they are complicit - while possibly technically correct - isn’t really helpful. We are severely lagging behind on organizing against this but lashing out at the few of us the care the most about this shit is unproductive imo. They are definitely wrong that only outside force can stop this and on that I will concede you are correct, there just is a much better way to make this argument.
Sure let me just rig up a suicide vest and go blow up my local town hall, that will surely be productive.
Literally no one said this, what I argued against was the bullshit position that somehow we shouldn’t hate Americans because they are “powerless.” Fuck Americans. Americans should (and I’m sure many are) deal with their problems and work together and all that shit. But people outside America are fully justified in saying: Fuck Americans. Especially losers who spend their time defending how it’s not their fault, that they don’t support the evil. No one cares, stop centring yourselves, American feelings literally do not matter to people outside of America watching a girls’ school get blown up.
Also “possibly technically correct” is weaselly bullshit too. Yes an American is complicit. Full stop. Not “possibly”, not “technically.” Fully. Acknowledging that complicity is the first step in doing something to change it, and prevaricating about it just shows a lack of commitment to actually be responsible for change.
Edit: An American who was actually opposed to this and in solidarity with the people that are dying for their shitty government’s bloodlust would not be defensively arguing their lack of responsibility, they would understanding the rightful anger of others and not making it about ensuring they don’t have to personally feel any guilt.
I’m not dismissing your rightful anger, just saying I think you were misreading the comment, though they were wrong in their analysis.
We are a very misguided and propagandized people and the thing they are describing is real. People do not like this but are also complicit because they too lack critical analysis of the thing they oppose. That does not mean they do not oppose it though. They just don’t know how to oppose it. They do however know that it is bad and should be opposed.
Simply pointing out complicity without offering up anything more in terms of a call to action doesn’t really do anything.
Yeah sure, Americans should sit around and wait for people from the outside to explain them to how to work together in their country. I’m not giving a call to action on a website because the American in question is the only one here who is able to look at their community circumstances and go and participate in something.
The comment in question was literally an American rejecting responsibility by saying the US citizens opposes this, then throwing their hands up and saying they need an outside force to do anything. And this was in response to someone saying they hate the US, a perfectly reasonable thing to express on this of all days.
Okay and? We talk every day about how Israelis are an evil people. I’m supposed to give a shit if an American has their feelings hurt?
It’s very much #NotAllAmericans energy. No one is oppressing Americans but Americans, people outside America saying shit about them isn’t oppression. If you don’t feel like it applies to you because you are not evil, then understand why people outside the US are calling you evil and work to fix that. Don’t argue that actually you’re one of the good ones.
We talk every day about how Israelis are an evil people.
I didn’t even say they are not lmao. All I said is that broad categorizations as such are not really productive in the end and Americans are a much larger population with many more contradictions than the Israelis.
Simple.
America is anything but. Are you lumping in all African Americans, Latin Americans, etc. who are fighting their own internal colonial struggle against the genocidal empire?
Are you lumping in all African Americans, Latin Americans, etc. who are fighting their own internal colonial struggle against the genocidal empire?
No because anyone who is seriously opposed to American violence wouldn’t identify with America, wouldn’t defend Americans online in a thread about Iran being bombed, and wouldn’t take it personally when people insulted America.
Just like when women say that men are all evil, the ones who aren’t the problem will continue to fight against misogyny, and the ones who get upset and declare that not all men are evil are actually self-centred and useless as allies.
Just like when people of colour say white people are all racist, the ones who are actually interested in anti-racism won’t argue about the “complexity” of white people.
Just like when I say cissies are all a bunch of bigoted transphobes, the ones who aren’t won’t tell me how much they actually are on my side.
Just like when I say the Brits are colonial monsters who need to sink beneath the waves as karmic retribution, the ones who are actually anti-colonial will not tell me how personally attacked they feel, or bring up that there also people in Britain who oppose the government.
But sure, let’s all centre the feelings and struggles of Americans on this day, and use minorities as a fucking debate tool to try to shame someone online for saying American citizens fucking suck and allow war to happen.
I literally said the opposite, that we are lagging and that is a moral failing and the person you were responding to was wrong for saying that resistance cannot come from within. People do oppose this and we need to leverage that. I don’t know what you are arguing at here but you are doing a textbook strawman here.
Sure let me just rig up a suicide vest and go blow up my local town hall, that will surely be productive.
People want to do something but telling a single individual they are complicit - while possibly technically correct - isn’t really helpful. We are severely lagging behind on organizing against this but lashing out at the few of us the care the most about this shit is unproductive imo. They are definitely wrong that only outside force can stop this and on that I will concede you are correct, there just is a much better way to make this argument.
Literally no one said this, what I argued against was the bullshit position that somehow we shouldn’t hate Americans because they are “powerless.” Fuck Americans. Americans should (and I’m sure many are) deal with their problems and work together and all that shit. But people outside America are fully justified in saying: Fuck Americans. Especially losers who spend their time defending how it’s not their fault, that they don’t support the evil. No one cares, stop centring yourselves, American feelings literally do not matter to people outside of America watching a girls’ school get blown up.
Also “possibly technically correct” is weaselly bullshit too. Yes an American is complicit. Full stop. Not “possibly”, not “technically.” Fully. Acknowledging that complicity is the first step in doing something to change it, and prevaricating about it just shows a lack of commitment to actually be responsible for change.
Edit: An American who was actually opposed to this and in solidarity with the people that are dying for their shitty government’s bloodlust would not be defensively arguing their lack of responsibility, they would understanding the rightful anger of others and not making it about ensuring they don’t have to personally feel any guilt.
I’m not dismissing your rightful anger, just saying I think you were misreading the comment, though they were wrong in their analysis.
We are a very misguided and propagandized people and the thing they are describing is real. People do not like this but are also complicit because they too lack critical analysis of the thing they oppose. That does not mean they do not oppose it though. They just don’t know how to oppose it. They do however know that it is bad and should be opposed.
Simply pointing out complicity without offering up anything more in terms of a call to action doesn’t really do anything.
Yeah sure, Americans should sit around and wait for people from the outside to explain them to how to work together in their country. I’m not giving a call to action on a website because the American in question is the only one here who is able to look at their community circumstances and go and participate in something.
The comment in question was literally an American rejecting responsibility by saying the US citizens opposes this, then throwing their hands up and saying they need an outside force to do anything. And this was in response to someone saying they hate the US, a perfectly reasonable thing to express on this of all days.
The comment they were responding to was saying that Americans are an evil people
Okay and? We talk every day about how Israelis are an evil people. I’m supposed to give a shit if an American has their feelings hurt?
It’s very much #NotAllAmericans energy. No one is oppressing Americans but Americans, people outside America saying shit about them isn’t oppression. If you don’t feel like it applies to you because you are not evil, then understand why people outside the US are calling you evil and work to fix that. Don’t argue that actually you’re one of the good ones.
Simple.
I didn’t even say they are not lmao. All I said is that broad categorizations as such are not really productive in the end and Americans are a much larger population with many more contradictions than the Israelis.
America is anything but. Are you lumping in all African Americans, Latin Americans, etc. who are fighting their own internal colonial struggle against the genocidal empire?
No because anyone who is seriously opposed to American violence wouldn’t identify with America, wouldn’t defend Americans online in a thread about Iran being bombed, and wouldn’t take it personally when people insulted America.
Just like when women say that men are all evil, the ones who aren’t the problem will continue to fight against misogyny, and the ones who get upset and declare that not all men are evil are actually self-centred and useless as allies.
Just like when people of colour say white people are all racist, the ones who are actually interested in anti-racism won’t argue about the “complexity” of white people.
Just like when I say cissies are all a bunch of bigoted transphobes, the ones who aren’t won’t tell me how much they actually are on my side.
Just like when I say the Brits are colonial monsters who need to sink beneath the waves as karmic retribution, the ones who are actually anti-colonial will not tell me how personally attacked they feel, or bring up that there also people in Britain who oppose the government.
But sure, let’s all centre the feelings and struggles of Americans on this day, and use minorities as a fucking debate tool to try to shame someone online for saying American citizens fucking suck and allow war to happen.
I literally said the opposite, that we are lagging and that is a moral failing and the person you were responding to was wrong for saying that resistance cannot come from within. People do oppose this and we need to leverage that. I don’t know what you are arguing at here but you are doing a textbook strawman here.