NATO: What? You can still lose while not participating?
while Ukranian soldiers are fighting on the ground, NATO is providing the weapons platforms, ammunition, and intelligence to keep the war going. In this way, the Ukraine war can be seen as a proxy war between NATO and Russia. For more information, check out this Wikipedia page on foreign involvement in the Russo-Ukranian war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war_(2022–present)
This is incorrect.
While it’s true that most NATO countries are providing “aid” to Ukraine…there are some who are functionally not participating. Additionally, there are many non-NATO countries providing support to Ukraine. Also, there are many countries supporting Russia…and not just countries that could be considered their proxy or puppet states.
Characterizing the conflict as simply a war between Russia and NATO isn’t an accurate way to describe it…there are enough caveats to invalidate that description.
My opinion is that any characterization of the war that labels Ukraine as a proxy is doing the work of a Russian propagandist - because that is how Russian propaganda labels the war, for what should be obvious reasons. They would have us believe that they are fighting NATO alone, which is clearly not the case on either side.
The vast majority of funds (like $300 billion) coming to Ukraine are coming from NATO , the vast majority of non-NATO funds (like $100 billion) coming to Ukraine are coming from the EU, and when you consider that 23 out of 27 EU member states are in NATO, it all starts to look like NATO. The existence of small non-NATO funders is not inconsistent with a NATO-driven war, either. Since the vast majority of support is coming from NATO-aligned sources, and the Ukrainian military would collapse very quickly without that aid, and NATO aligned intelligence services have been training the Ukrainians from the beginning (https://archive.ph/mMm5u), it is fair to call this a NATO-proxy war.
I would say that it’s the job of NATO propagandists to deny this obvious reality. Remember that you are propagandized constantly by your own government that is currently supporting a genocide in Gaza, while denying it.
“I know you are but what am I” isn’t an argument, especially when you didn’t engage with any of my points.
I certainly have no love for the US and it’s allies…as do I have no love for Russia and it’s supporters. As far as I’m concerned it’s fascist vs fascist…I have no interest in characterizing the conflict as anything other than what it is: Russia getting revenge and attempting to regain control after the loss of their puppet government in Ukraine…and the US trying to maintain a greater “west”.
Saying that the vast majority of aid is coming from NATO isn’t appropriate…given that almost all of that aid is coming from the US. If it was a NATO action then we’d see a much more proportionate distribution and large NATO members wouldn’t be able to take a pass. It simply isn’t NATO vs Russia: it’s the Ukraine & the US and their allies vs Russia and its allies. There’s too many NATO countries not participating, too many non-NATO countries helping & too many nations helping Russia.
When you simplify it, and your simplification just happens to match Russian propaganda…it is what it is. Russia would have us believe they are the underdog and are fighting alone against an expansionist treaty organization. That may be partially true, but it also and more true that Russia wishes to expand and they’re getting help from China, North Korea, Iran, Belarus, etc
My government doesn’t propagandize too much about Gaza…we have a much more fraught relationship with that crisis. You may think I’m American. I’m not.
I am from Ukraine. I don’t need to read that proxy-bullshit. I have more or less adequate understanding of the scale of that involvement.
It’s a proxy war whether you like it or not. Without NATO support, Ukraine would have collapsed within weeks. This is true even if that aid is insufficient to bring victory, and it isn’t. John Mearsheimer has been predicting this since 2015. He was ignored.
It was unethical for NATO leaders to have encouraged war knowing they could not guarantee a victory. More Ukranians died as a result.
The gvmt of ukraine actually tried to prevent that, and weeks after the invasion then war was almost ended. But the the british pm came, and all of the sudden ukrainian gvmt was no longer willing to continue the negotiation.
Correct. That was key moment of moral failure of NATO represented by Boris Johnson.