That post explicitly says it’s not a place for debate or participation from users of other instances.
I’d like to respect that but I think events like this need debate and discussion because it helps to develop and evolve the culture of lemmy and the fediverse in general.
The post says:
This post is “FYI only” for blahaj lemmy members. It is not a debate, and is not intended for non blahaj lemmy users to weigh in and offer opinions.
I recently received reports of a feddit.uk user espousing transphobia. Specifically, this was a feddit.uk user refusing to use the word cis, repeating the “adult human female” dog whistle, and claiming that trans women are not women. I approached a member of the feddit.uk admin team and raised my concerns and sought clarification of their stance on posts like this, where the transphobia is mostly dogwhistles, and “civil disagreement” on the validity of trans folk.
I was told by the feddit.uk admin that their preferred response is this kind of transphobia is to “sort it out through discussion and voting”. However, the comments in question are currently more upvoted than downvoted, and little “sorting out” has occurred. The posts remain in place.
At this point, the admin stopped responding to my messages despite being active elsewhere on lemmy. When it became clear they were ignoring my messages and had no intention of removing the posts in question, I made the decision to defederate the instance.
I know some folk agree with the feddit.uk admins approach of pushback through discussion and voting, but this instance is not designed to be that kind of space. Blahaj lemmy is meant to be a place where we can avoid the rampant transphobia universally visible on nearly every other social media platform, and where we can exist without needing to debate our right to do so.
I find it absolutely crazy that they de-federated over 1 user, when a block would suffice.
I don’t agree with transphobia (of course), but Blåhaj can’t demand that their rules be enforced in other instances.
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They chimed in elsewhere, sounds like they want consensus amongst the admin group and they are worried about the recent (frankly transphobic) UK Supreme Court ruling. They also expressed understanding that blahaj wanted to move faster and defederate.
Edit: Source I was referencing. Not advocating for or against, but there at least appears to be a bit more nuance than straight up support of or apathy about transphobia.
I’m not sure there is any nuance there.
Rule 1 for feddit.uk is explicitly against transphobia. The comment was transphobic and against the rules and should have been removed.
The UK Supreme Court ruling is, as you said, blatantly transphobic.
So they have two options:
- Adhere to their own rules
- Drop rule #1 and be OK with transphobic comments.
Regardless of the excuse (and I will not call it “reason”, because it is just an excuse at best IMO) the only option for blahaj would be to defederate. Feddit.uk has, in their lack of moderation of transphobic comments, chosen option 2.
At present, feddit.uk is totally cool with transphobia.
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Ada‘s post contains no details or reasoning. Linking to the offending content would make this appear more deliberate.
The offending content was apparently this.
A woman is an adult female. A transwoman is an adult female who used to be male. It’s not difficult to grasp that they are different things. You can admit that and still believe that transwomen should be treated with dignity like anyone else.
Personally I don’t give a shit what bathroom people use or what they want to be referred to. I’ll go along with whatever… But a woman and a transwoman are different things, and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Always have been different things and always will be, no matter what the law states, now or in the future.
Kier’s words are still not transphobia. There is no fear, dislike, prejudice, discrimination, harassment, or violence in his statement. The scream of ‘transphobia’ is thrown around too much for anyone who disagrees with a narrow definition. Any disagreement is labelled as hate, and it’s silly.
Should a transwoman have the same rights and respect and opportunity as a woman (as per the legal definition)? Absolutely. Are they the same? No, they are not. Is that a hateful bigoted viewpoint worthy of scorn? I don’t believe so.
I don’t use the term cis. I use the term woman and you knew exactly what I meant. A blonde woman is a description of a woman’s hair colour and is a semantic-based response that is nothing to do with this point. You know this; it’s a foolish riposte that’s nothing at all to do with the clear and simple fact that a woman who used to be a man is not the same thing as a (cis) woman.
I can call it a woman who used to have a penis or a woman who used to be a man if you want me to be pedantic about it. Nothing to do with hair colour, or skin colour, or anything else except previously being a biological male and now identifying as a woman.
‘adult human female’ is not a dog whistle. It’s a legal and common-sense definition that you clearly understand but are trying to make out to be hate for some reason. I am not denying the legitimacy of transwomen; nor is Keir.
Transwomen and (cis) women are different things. And Transmen and (cis) men are different things. They have different names, which you yourself use for a reason. That reason being they are not the same thing. This is exactly the same as saying transwomen are not women, because they are not. They are transwomen.
It’s pretty simple.
Wtf, this isn’t hate. This is someone stating their perspective with no harmful intent. If anything that comment is a great starter to a serious discussion on the topic.
If Ada doesn’t want such content on their instance they have the right to defederade and I fully support their right to it, no matter the reason (it is their instance after all).
I can understand why someone would disagree with that comment, but calling it transphobia or hate speech?
The part that becomes transphobic is the insistence that the definitions are “transwoman” and “woman”. A trans woman (note the space) is a type of woman, no one denies that. It’d be like using the term “blondewoman” and insisting that they are different from every other kind of “woman”, and not included in womanhood.
Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content:
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part. As well, I don’t see where the actual content has been linked, so I think the commenter above you might be full of shit, unless they can give a source.I’m not going to participate further in this circus after this comment though.
The second I saw Ada’s post the other day, I knew there’d be a PTB post with people either ignorantly, or knowingly pushing transphobic viewpoints.(Edit: I actually amend my statement. This comment thread was right at the top for me, but upon further reading people here have been really chill. Genuinely, thanks all for understanding that Blahaj is first and foremost a place for trans people to feel safe above any other concerns) It’s the ignorance that gets to me honestly, as if we don’t live in a world today where the majority of people aren’t susceptible to the overt fascism of Mussolini and Hitler anymore. Fascists, and other bad actors, realised they had to become smarter and more subtle with the way they spread hatred. They sow plausible-sounding doubt about transgender healthcare, like saying trans “children” are put on hormones when that’s only ever offered at 16 or older, or that these same “children” are given surgeries at 16 when no healthcare systems allow under 18 year olds to get surgery, and in fact many block trans adults from those life-saving procedures. It’s designed to be “death by a thousand cuts” because straight up attacking trans folks right to exist will cause most people to push back against that.Let me just ask you (the general you, not the person I’m replying to) what exactly the need for defining trans women as not biologically female actually is? Is it to stop us from using the women’s bathroom? Well, if your goal is to reduce the amount of people sexually assaulted, that will surely fail, and I shouldn’t have to explain why. Is it so that cis women can get the medical care they need, that differs from trans women? That’s not a problem that exists, nor would most trans women deny that cis women have their own medical needs, when we obviously have our own too. Is it to stop trans women from going to DV shelters? Do you really think a woman that’s being terrorised to the level of leaving her home is going to purposefully harm other women?
What is the actual need for defining trans women separately then? Why are certain people so obsessed by this need? The best answer I’ve got is the fact that the US executive government has decided to define them separately, and under the cover of that, they not only have stopped issuing passports with trans folks chosen gender marker, but have stopped issuing them in their gender assigned at birth as well. Let me repeat for you, trans folks Are Not Able To Get A Passport At All Anymore In The United States thanks to this manufactured debate around biological sex. I shudder to think about what comes next after an act like that.
Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part. As well, I don’t see where the actual content has been linked, so I think the commenter above you might be full of shit, unless they can give a source.
How do you know the poster is full of shit? You didn’t even ask for the source.
Also defederating from an instance while not including the actual offending content is not very transparent.
Well, transparency only matters on blahaj.
And making a post warning users of blahaj is transparency. It’s coming to users and saying : here is an administrative decision being made, here is the rationale behind that decision.
There’s no need to link, copy, or otherwise bring up the original comment when the decision is based on the choices of other instances. It would be nice yeah, but not mandatory for transparency.
An instance can do what they want. That doesn’t change the fact that accusing admins of another instance of supporting transphobia (that was de facto the claimed reason for defederation) without proof is not appropriate.
Get fucked 😀
Thank you for confirming the following:
The Blahj instance takes everything you hate about Reddit power mods and elevates them to federation level. Extreme overreaction, self-righteousness, the ‘If you disagree with me, you’re transphobic’ bullshit and the complete inability to have a conversation with people who disagree with them.
Courtesy of FauxLiving (an excellent point I must add).
This is exactly how they propagandize fence-sitters and convert them into extremists.
They start with a factual and level-headed stance that’s hard to argue against, here being that “Trans women are biologically different, but shouldn’t be treated any differently,” but then, by the end, they’re sprinkling dog whistles and covertly separating them, because once you can view them as something external, it’s easier to ignore or even support what happens to them later.
This is exactly the same as saying transwomen are not women, because they are not. They are transwomen.
Blatant transphobia wrapped in a level-headed blanket to covertly shift perspectives. I mean, even if you look over the first reply, having their actual intentions in mind, it becomes apparent that they were very careful not to imply that trans people are in any way the same as cis people, making sure to use more general terms like “deserve respect” in order to not contradict the idea that they’re a totally separate entity. If the admins of feddit[.]uk are okay with this, defedding them was the right move.
Someone saying transwomen exist and deserve equal rights to women is not exactly an extremely transphobic position to hold.
That’s a progressive view overall still. Take all the allies you can get. Competitions in ideological purity and playing political commissar only serve to divide.
We live in a time now where equal rights for transwomen and women are under attack.
Rights and identities are not the same thing or equally important.
What many people consider a „real woman“ or „real man“ varies and often excludes cisgender people.
That said, I totally understand that Blahaj defederated and has a more strict stance.
People are entitled to have their own opinions on a topic and should be free to discuss topics with out harassment from mods on other instances.
This line of reasoning is gestapo.
you are gonna talk as I told you or you won’t talk at all
🤡
Everyone has the right to be bigoted without being harassed for it!
Okay, bigot. Blocked.
I love the irony of my comments being deleted for calling out the weaponization of tribalism by the .blahaj community.
Dragonfucker is not a serious gender, grow up.
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Nice slippery slope.
Brand new account searching for opportunities to make transphobic remarks? Yeah, fuck off, troll.
If you’re not vehemently loyal to the trans agenda, you might as well be a nazi in their eyes.
It’s why rational people take their complaints less seriously every day.
That’s crazy. I mean it’s their instance and I don’t think it was out of the realm for blahaj to do but over the post of one guy is crazy.
but over the post of one guy is crazy
Not the post of one guy. The response of the admins to that post. Refusing to remove the transphobia (because of, if we take them at their word, a misinterpretation of an unjust court ruling). Refusing to communicate with the blahaj admins.
And why couldn’t they just ban the guy from posting on the blahaj instance?
They could, and probably did. The issue here is with the UK admins’ failure to act in a timely manner on the basis of some nonsensical reasoning, and their terrible communication.
Defederating from an instance over one guy not being banned in a timely manner is a bit overblown though.
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Just a sense check here, are you asserting that Ada is a PTB for defederating from feddit.uk after their admins failed to take action?
Blajah Zone is specifically run as a safe space for trans folks, so it’s an emphatic YDI to feddit.uk from me.
Given that the UK Supreme Court recently ruled that the legal definition of a woman in the UK is based on biological sex, and the supposedly Labour PM Starmer is running with it (wtf Starmer???), it’s not surprising to me that TERFs and their supporters are coming out of the woodwork on feddit.uk.
Fuck TERFs and fuck Starmer for jumping on Trump’s anti-DEI bandwagon just to pander to transphobic voters.
OP seems pretty neutral and this is just a “here’s what’s going on in lemmy moderation/administration”.
I wasn’t sure how to take the post, so that’s why I wanted a sense check. But yeah, I assume you are correct.
Then why did they post about it in this community?
100%. If this was an information only style post, they wouldn’t be saying that it should’ve allowed debate… and we have a whole fediverse lore sub specifically for info.
They pointed elsewhere they didn’t understand the purpose of this comm.
I don’t think we should use “comm” as an abbreviation for community.
Comm is already taken to mean ‘communication.’
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I’m not asserting anything. My motivation was exactly what it says in the opening post. I think discussion about these things is important.
Sadly it seems I’ve made a mistake and that this sub might have been the wrong place to post. I didn’t realise this community did PTB / YDI style determinations and yes, I failed to read the side bar prior to posting.
Unfortunately it seems like there is some actual discussion happening so it feels wrong to just delete the post at this point. I was going to report my own post but it seems that’s not possible?
Yeah that’s what prompted my question really, because I wasn’t sure how it fitted the format. I guess if we explicitly make the subject whether the feddit admin(s) deserved the defederation, then I guess it kind of fits the format though. And it’s nice to see such a strong show of support for Ada and Blajah.
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Defederating an entire instance over the actions of a single user instead of simply banning that user along with creating a post to bring it up but not actually discuss it is just the kind of extreme reaction I expect from Ada.
That’s why I chose blahaj zone as my instance. It’s nice not having to justify my existence
Yeah, Ada’s modding may be seen as heavy-handed by some, but that’s largely because it’s a reaction to the fact basically nowhere is safe for people who are trans. Maintaining a truly trans-inclusive space requires active heavy-handed moderation, because going easy or remaining passive just leads to transphobes sneaking in.
makes sense to me, that is what blahaj is for 😒 besides people that agree with that user don’t want to interact with blahaj. And those that do could do it elsewhere
literally the fediverse working exactly as intended… blahaj clearly states its purpose and lives by it. on any other instance it might be ptb, but on blahaj thats just good instance administration
So some feddit.uk user posting some stuff an Blahaj admin didn’t like. So the Blahaj admin want to a feddit.uk admin about it. The feddit.uk admin said, “Let the users sort it out.”. People liked what as being said. This made the Blahaj admin so mad. They defederated from feddit.uk because over it.
Jesus, Blahaj always been full of crazy people. But this takes the cake. The feddit.uk admin did nothing wrong.
EDIT If you see a post/comment you don’t like. You don’t ban or defederate. You write an counter to them to get people to be on your side of it.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if other instances start considering defederating from feddit.uk over this. If folks want to chat with racists and transphobes then stay on Xitter ffs. Hopefully their admin team do the right thing here, after talking it over.
That’s not how it works.
Moderating means filtering out content that is unwelcome or even harmful to your users.
Sure, you can get into it and have a talk, try to modify the persons behaviour. But you don’t moderate for the offenders sake. You moderate for your users sake.
So, as a user, you can dive in and talk counterarguments. As a mod, you get rid of that shit ASAP before any of your users suffer the misfortune of having to see it.
Where that line is, depends on who you are, and who your users are. That’s the whole beaty of the fediverse. People with different needs can sign up on different instances, with different rules and standards.
Admins can’t control the content of other instances, so when another instance refuses to work with you to uphold a given standard, defederation is the only, and correct, recourse.
The whole point of blahaj, is that they go the extra mile to protect vulnerable users, so they can engage with social media on their own terms.
If someone wants unfiltered content, and to engage this stuff directly by “writing counters”, they can go create accounts somewhere else. Blahaj isn’t for that. It’s for people who don’t want to, or might not even have the energy, to justify their basic right to exist.
And that’s before pointing out that no-one should have to do that in the first place.
If someone wants unfiltered content, and to engage this stuff directly by “writing counters”, they can go create accounts somewhere else. Blahaj isn’t for that. It’s for people who don’t want to, or might not even have the energy, to justify their basic right to exist.
Okay, how can you get more to join your side. If you don’t have discussions with other people? You can’t. Have fun in your echo chamber.
“How can you get people to stop stabbing you, if you don’t let them into the room so you can explain why they should stop?”
We can’t all be soldiers. You can’t expect everyone to take the knife over and over until the world gets better.
Good thing is, we can do both. You and me, we can have a talk about this. I’m ready and willing. Maybe I’ll even convince you.
And it doesn’t require exposing everyone over on blahaj to your bigoted bullshit.
Echo chambers are only a problem if there are no people who move between them. And trust me, vulnerable people can only protect themselves so much. They’ll get shit thrown their way no matter what, the world is still far too fucked to prevent that. All you need to do to see that, is look up the suicide rate among trans people.
That’s why every word with scorn behind it, counts. The less of them a person has to deal with to begin with, the more likely they are to be alive tomorrow.
your bigoted bullshit.
Maybe I’ll even convince you.
You’re doing a great job.
Also, how is “countering and getting people to your side” working for you?
Good. Because my point is to get people to discussions with other people.
Also when did I say I was against trans people?
You didn’t.
The opinion you are presenting, is against their safety, though.
terfs fuck off.
How are people still struggling with the basic concept that the person who runs Blahaj can do what they want with Blahaj?
All I get from this type of moaning is: “I joined a decentralised platform and now disagree with decentralisation in action.”
If this kind of action is what it takes for Blahajists to protect their necks then this is how it’s gonna be…
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It’s totally reasonable for them to enforce their level of anti-bigotry protections to protect their safe space instance. It’s not power tripping. Besides feddit.uk is full of full time labour centrist true believers and/or probable astroturfers and is is largely low value subreddit copy paste for their most substantial communities.
I feel like this community serves a great purpose. And I’m a massive fan of drinking my tea and reading all the drama it attracts. But I am just beyond tired of the same handful of commenters popping up to always agree with whoever is opposed to blahaj.
I give this one a YDI. Anybody posting anything transphobic who gets caught by Ada is gonna be banned. Any instance with a mod or admin who makes transphobic posts or comments will get defederated. No one is entitled to having their content served on Ada’s servers, and the people who join blahaj know that, and seem to appreciate it.
Which is sort of why I always wind up agreeing with her. Her server has clear, concise beliefs, and clear, concise administration, and she has the clear-throated consent of her governed or they would leave.
The only server whose vibe I appreciate more is divide by zero. Shout-out to what I feel is the most neurospicy, nonconformist bunch of pirates I ever met.
