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Joined 2 years ago
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Cake day: June 24th, 2024

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  • I wouldn’t usually continue to engage, but you don’t actually come across as a hasbarist. I do agree with quite a few of the things you’ve said, but the conclusions you seem to come to regarding modern Israel are, at the very least, confusing.

    If you understand Zionism’s history then you must understand that the modern state of Israel would not exist without Zionism. One of Zionism’s core principles is colonisation^. Therefore, Israel is a settler-colonial state. The circumstances and motivations of the individual settlers are irrelevant when the outcome is the same. Knowing this yet still claiming that Israel is not a settler-colonial state is deceitful.

    ^Wikipedia is not an ideal source of information, but that particular page cites more than enough quality sources that clearly show this to be the case.

    The views I have expressed are mostly directed specifically at the state, not every single individual. Anyone with any sense understands that no group of people consists of identical individuals. You have made a lot of assumptions about my views. Just because I can see why something happened does not mean that I agree with it.

    These issues and events existed well before Netanyahu, and whether or not the citizens like him is largely irrelevant when polls repeatedly show that the vast majority approve of the general treatment of Palestinians.

    While my comment about Australia was facetious, the intent was to point out that, regardless of the history, the treatment of the local populations in both situations is wrong, but in Australia amends are slowly being made. I don’t think the comment you’re referring to meant “peaceful coexistence” in the sense that there was absolutely no conflict (they did say “no major conflict”), but were more likely thinking along the lines of “peaceful enough to coexist”, whereas that is not how I would describe the current situation at all.


  • You demonstrate a good enough understanding of the history that you clearly know that you are being deceitful.

    While some elements of Israel’s establishment can be classified as settler colonialism, it’s not accurate to say that all of it is.

    Is there any colonised country that this doesn’t apply to? Colonisation is a core principle of Zionism. It’s so central to Zionism that it’s in the introductory paragraph on it’s Wikipedia page. Many of the early Zionist leaders said that their goals could only be achieved through the displacement of Arabs, and the migration of Jews was, and still is, strongly encouraged by Zionists.

    For example, when Israel was established. The muslim world started committing pogroms in mass against their Jewish communities even though they had nothing to do with Israel.

    Gosh, I wonder if that was in response to the treatment of Arabs in Palestine.

    These people who been living in their communities for hundreds, and for some, thousands, of years were forced to abandon everything, including their citizenship, and flee to Israel because that’s the only place that took them in.

    And they had no problem pushing out the Arabs (who had been living in their communities for hundreds, and for some, thousands, of years) on their way in.

    The total number of people from the exodus total around 1 million people. These people and their descendants now make up a very large chunk of the Israeli population, if not an outright majority.

    Before they started settling in Palestine it used to be that less than 5% of the population were Jewish.

    A majority of Australian colonists were sent there for committing petty crimes, such as theft. The industrial revolution left much of the working class without work, so theft in Britain rose rapidly. For the crime of trying to fees their family, over 100,000 people were forcibly transported to Australia. Their descendants now make up a very large chunk of the Australian population.













  • What I meant was the difference in who was targeted. My understanding, which could be wrong, is that specific groups (and more specifically, their leaders) were primarily targeted by the operations carried out back then, whereas today they are also detaining/deporting etc people who genuinely have no offenses or ties to such groups. Even Trump supporters and their family members are being persecuted. I think it’s these seemingly indiscriminate actions that make the average person less willing to take a stand, especially if they don’t feel as though they’ve been affected badly enough yet to risk sticking their neck out.

    In any case it’s a terrifying and truly fucked situation.


  • I don’t know that the suppression by the government during those protests was anything like what is going on today though. The government has been detaining regular protestors alongside movement leaders/organisers to scare people into thinking that nobody is safe. The Trump administration has even been targeting people for deportation based on the fucking Canary Mission.

    Another big difference is the fact that many of the protestors back then were at risk of being directly affected via the draft, whereas the impact of the Palestinian genocide on the majority of Americans is minimal to nonexistent.