All of that, I agree with. It’s fine. In the same way, I certainly believe that maga.place should be permitted to exist.

My point was that implicitly asking people to give “consideration” in the way that you did, is asking that some level of respect be granted to people who are giving none in return. It’s the paradox of tolerance. It’s okay to shun people who are making excuses and apologetics for literal mass murder, even to laugh at them for balling up their fists and shutting their eyes tight, and insisting that you are the one who is jingoistic, hostile, counterfactual, unreasonable, and all that, if you aren’t fans of the same mass murderers they are.

“Don’t you dare disagree with me, or I’ll get really hostile and ban you” doesn’t demand consideration or respect.

It’s always the same with these guys:

When they’re winning, it’s ruthless and relentless, everything you get is your fault, and you’re a fool and a dipshit if you don’t get on board.

As soon as things start not going their way, they start the waterworks. It’s all unfair, it’s horrible, how could people be so mean to us. Don’t they believe in all of our common humanity? How could they?

This is literally 100% the reason why a jury of your peers exists.

The founding fathers went through a system where dipshits like Stephen Miller could just make up whatever they wanted, and the people had no role, and they fought a whole war to cancel that system. They knew exactly what was up with it.

Edit: If, by some chance, you wind up on a jury where this comes up, just pretend you’ve never heard of it. Even having heard the term, or understanding the concept, will almost certainly get you disqualified from the jury. You can do the exact same process of deciding that it’s a bunch of bullshit that whatever person is being accused of whatever when it’s pretty obvious that they were not the one in the wrong, without it being called “jury nullification.” It’s just justice, it’s just common sense, like I said it is the whole intent of having a jury.

Yeah. I suspect that there are people who make a habit of targeting particular “anti-tankie” or anti-troll users who are in a role of authority, and bullying them consistently to try to drive them away or at least ruin their reputation (with accusing them of being transphobic Zionists being for some reason the absolutely consistent go-to accusation). I think PugJesus is just the latest target.

It’s a little hard to say, because banning someone for downvotes actually is kind of bullshit, but I suspect that the personal innuendos about PugJesus in this thread and their popularity in the voting mean that the overall bullying effort is working pretty well.

I’m referring to all the sturm and drang in this community, and getting upset about simply seeing this type of content but refusing to unsubscribe to curate your own feed.

If it was just downvotes, I wouldn’t be aware of it and we wouldn’t be talking right now.

Sure. But why are you so angry about historical artifacts lol

It’s like “here’s a cool spear from the 13th century” “LOW EFFORT TRASH FUCK THIS ARJHGSEFJHSDGBFKJSDHFBGDSK NO I DON’T WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE I WANT HIM TO SUFFER”

https://lemvotes.org/user/abbotsbury@lemmy.world

IDK why you find the history memes stuff to be “low quality spam,” it is one among the unique things about Lemmy that actually make me like it. It is the number one community on piefed.social for example. But definitely the accusation of mass downvoting seems to be pretty accurate. Do you do anything other than mass downvote popular content that you personally don’t like?

(I actually agree that in general people shouldn’t ban for this type of downvoting in most cases, that part I agree with you on. But this kind of absolute freakout and energy investment on your part about the history memes and artifact posts and etc, I think has a lot more to do with what’s going on with you, than it does anything about the content itself. Why are you so mad about it?)

I’m actively frustrated by the lack of coverage other genocides are getting.

So you saw a story about atrocities in Myanmar, and your reaction was to get very upset because there’s a lack of coverage of atrocities in Myanmar. Got it. And then you said “no one will do a thing.” Hey, what has the West been “doing” about Gaza? I feel like that’s an important question. If they haven’t been doing anything (aside from deporting Palestine supporters and giving weapons by the planeload), it’s okay to say.

How many hundreds of Isreal/Palistine protests have happend? How many thousands of people have made an official statement. How many people have lost VISAs and been deported for talking about it?

One of these things is not like the others.

This sort of gets to my point: I actually somewhat agree with you about Palestine consuming an outsized reaction compared to other horrible things going on elsewhere in the world and other urgent issues. But there are reasons for that. A lot of those other things, “we” aren’t causing and supporting the whole time it is happening. And, that’s only, as you said, from the population. In terms of what “the West” is doing geopolitically, they’re arming Israel, deporting or denying visas to Palestinian activists, and sometimes giving them prison sentences for speaking up about it. Nobody in “the West” if you mean government is doing shit about it. It’s still happening, just like Darfur, and instead of Anthony Blinken condemning it and putting sanctions on the perpatrators, he’s giving arms to the RSF to the tune of billions and billions of dollars. So to speak.

You basically can’t say it’s a genocide within mainstream media (New York Times, TV, State Department brief). They’re planning on continuing to stall and help it happen until everyone’s dead. I think that’s why people are upset about it.

I’m saying its one of several and the only reason anyone talks about it is because jews are on one side.

Maybe that is a tiny percentage, but most people who hate Jews don’t mind Arabs dying either, and most people at these hundreds of protests you are talking about also have no problem with Jews. A lot of them are Jews. That’s sort of the core of my point: I don’t get how you think that caring about Gaza correlates with not caring about Myanmar. Surely people would mostly either care about both or neither (if we’re talking about the population), right? And the fact that they care and it’s being reported is why we’re talking under a story about Myanmar?

Anyway, what has the West actually been “doing” about the genocide in Gaza? If they haven’t been doing anything, it’s okay to say. I feel like you keep not really addressing that question.

Yes. I read the Lancet’s study estimating the total deaths (and then some more recent follow-up ones which come to a variety of conclusions), I read a handful of UN reports past and present in a good bit of detail, I watched some video of what’s actually happening, I read a huge variety of sources including Israel’s and the Arab world’s and US and non-US news sources a lot of which include criticism of the others so you can get a solidly well-rounded idea of what is happening. I’ve had some conversations on Lemmy where someone was swearing that something would happen in the future in some particular way, and I predicted something else, and my prediction was the one that came true because I’m generally on top of what is happening.

Anyway, what has the West been “doing” about Israel / Palestine? That wasn’t just rhetorical, I’m genuinely asking you what you’re talking about.

Also what do you mean bringing Palestine into it in the first place (my last question)? Are you implying that someone who does care about Palestine would therefore not care about Myanmar? If that’s what you’re saying that doesn’t make sense to me. Or am I misunderstanding that part, what are you saying?

What have they been doing about Israel / Palestine? Outside of a bunch of protests the West hasn’t been “doing” anything about either one (well, aside from arming the Israelis the whole time).

Also, it’s not really an either/or if that’s what you are implying. What’s happening in Gaza is so much worse than Myanmar that it kind of makes sense that they would be more vocal about it… but I suspect that outside a handful of openly partisan actors, most people either care about both (because they care about human rights) or neither (because they don’t). Right? Or no? I’m just a little confused about what viewpoint you’re taking here.

“Appear to”

It was probably at least 200,000 at the beginning of this year.

I don’t know if it’s because by limiting it to “violent death” this study is missing a massive number of deaths from injury, disease, or starvation, or what’s going on, but “over 100,000” is a huge undercount for the present moment. This whole year with continued destruction of all the facilities for human life, and deliberate starvation on a massive scale, has been much much worse than even the horror that it was previous to this year. 100,000 is nowhere near the total.

It’s interesting to me that you’re not interested in answering the “they’re both bad” question…

Anyway, why are you mad about any of what you said? It sounds like weapons and money, humanitarian aid, and international condemnation for the attacker is what should be happening. The problem is that it’s not happening in Palestine, not that it is happening in Ukraine. Right? Or, maybe not in your world, tell me.

They could have ended it in 2023 if they had agreed to the peace deal.

They agreed to a few peace deals. Russia ignored them (often in performatively flagrant fashion), leading to a “collapse” of the deal. Sound familiar? You have that some hashtags about a ceasefire that should apply equally to Russia and Israel, I think, for pretty much the same reason: If they wanted to agree to peace, they could just bring their militaries home and voila peace, so what’s the point in the peace “deal” and what person would ever expect it to be honored and why?

WTF?

You don’t have to imagine. It is Ukraine, too.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/russian-airstrike-on-ternopil-in-western-ukraine-kills-at-least-20-including-children/ar-AA1QJW8B

Two days ago, 25 dead including children, and 73 injured. You probably didn’t see it, because it wasn’t on front page of every newspaper, TV and radio.

No idea what the fuck you’re on about with the redirection to Ukraine about it in the first place either. Russia killing innocent civilians is bad. Israel killing innocent civilians is bad. They’re both bad. Right?

Trump is probably nettled about Russia’s claim to have tested a long-range, nuclear-powered cruise missile, the Burevestnik

Let me tell you a little story about an American missile called the “snark.”

The name was the sort of joke that weapons engineers like to make. It was supposed to navigate itself autonomously to its target in the Soviet Union by watching the stars. It did not have horizontal stabilizers, and flew itself pointed in a weird nose-up attitude the entire way. Once it arrived at its destination, it was supposed to detach the warhead and then pull up violently in order not to get in the warhead’s way, which caused it to break apart in flight. They said with a straight face that the falling debris would help to confuse enemy radar, as if this had been a purposeful design element rather than something that they weren’t bothering to fix.

It did not do its navigation very well. One of the strategic bomber pilots was quoted as saying that he felt a hell of a lot better about flying his bomber knowing that the plan was for a bunch of these things to be wandering aimlessly above Asia and distracting everyone’s attention from what his bomber was up to.

Anyway, they tried it in about 1961, and it sucked so they stopped. And I think the US in 1961 was in a lot better position than modern Russia to do these kinds of things effectively.

Just a little story to distract everyone from the horror of Trump and what he is doing

One thing about this is that it seems to labor under the assumption of a symmetrical (or near symmetrical) fight, and that is exactly the last thing that a resistance group should be doing.

He talks about guerilla war in parts of it.

All these human traffickers have homes to go back to at night, and if enough face repercussions, it will quickly become difficult to find people willing to stick their neck out and possibly become yet another new fountain.

The same is true of judges, Democratic congresspeople, state governors… all kinds of people. So you’re right back to the symmetrical conflict.

Yeah, it is excellent. He put it in the public domain, it’s on the internet:

https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/126900/8008_FDTD.pdf

He wrote a bunch more that are a little more in depth (there are references in the appendix for some specific details about particular tactics), but that one is the pamphlet condensed version which is still pretty comprehensive.

The second frog turns to the first and says “you’re being alarmist, things aren’t that bad.”

This sounds like the second frog.‡

You gotta read what I wrote again then lol

You definitely have way more faith in our (metaphorical) neighbors and the system than I do.

Absolutely not. Actually one of the really alarming things to me is that I don’t think this country has the structures and traditions in its society anymore that would enable it to build and maintain a working technological society (let alone a working democracy). I hope I am wrong, but I actually don’t even think that the current fascism crisis is the worst thing that we’re facing. I think it is a symptom of a much deeper disease which is a lot harder to get rid of than any one leader or political faction no matter how fascistic.

It would help if you included resources that prove that that book was the pretext for double digit successful revolutions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Dictatorship_to_Democracy

It’s known to have been directly involved in Burma, the Arab Spring, Serbia, and Angola. It’s been translated by local activists into Amharic, Arabic, Azeri, Bahasa, Belarusian, Burmese, Chin, Chinese (simplified and traditional Mandarin), Dhivehi, Farsi, French, Georgian, German, Jing Paw, Karen, Khmer, Kurdish, Kyrgyz, Nepali, Pashto, Russian, Serbian, Spanish, Tibetan, Tigrinya, Ukrainian, Uzbek, and Vietnamese. I have no idea how many of those led to it later being involved in a revolutionary attempt (let alone a successful one) in a “proof” sense. I was just telling you what I think about it.

Here’s a story: https://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/gene-sharp-revolutionary/index.html

The author is the real deal. He’s spent time in federal detention in the US, he’s spent a lot of time with people in resistance movements in these places.

I want to call your attention to this part specifically:

The Burmese were amazed by Sharp’s theories. They couldn’t believe they had been fighting and killing for 20 years when there was an alternative.

I don’t know if you can really call modern Myanmar a “success story” but to me they seem like they’re making more progress now than in 30 years of bloody armed confrontation with the military, which of course is more capable at military things.