Secretary Kristi Noem and the Department of Homeland Security announced $94 million in federal grants to over 500 Jewish-based organizations across the United States.

I recently sat down with Rabbi Sanford Akselrad from Congregation Ner Tamid, who told me the temple spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on security.

"The fight against hate against the Jews would morph yet again, um, so when someone says that they are, they, they love Jews but they, but they hate Israel and you get a little deeper, what do they mean by that… and usually when they go into the territory not of being critical of Israel which is fair game. But they say Israel has no right to exist at all now… we get into the area of antisemitism," Akselrad said.

More grants are expected in the coming months.

  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    It seems you’re conflating the words nation and state. A nation is a group of people with a shared, named identity, such as Hawaiian or Palestinian. A state is an officially recognized group with sovereignty over an area of land. Many nations exist which do not have their own states.

    All nations have the right to exist by the human right to freedom of association. Sovereign states have no right to exist: their existence is asserted and defended by force and by mutual recognition with other sovereign states.

    • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      A nation is a group of people with a shared, named identity, such as Hawaiian or Palestinian

      Hmm, I dont think this is true in the most common usage, but it’s also not what is meant when people challenge the notion of Israel’s ‘right to exist’.

      Nobody contends that the “shared identity” of Israel has no right to exist, only that Israel as a capital-J Jewish State has no unique or exclusive right to self-determination in Historic Palestine. No state or nationality has a right to deny the self-determination of another group on the basis of ethnic identity.

      • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Nobody contends that the “shared identity” of Israel has no right to exist

        That’s where things get tricky. There clearly are people who claim Israel (and Jews in general) as a shared identity and cultural group have no right to exist. These people are traditionally called Nazis.

        You’ll also run into trouble talking about historic Palestine, previously part of the Ottoman Empire, and long prior to that the Kingdom of Israel (around 1047-930 BCE). The Israelis aren’t simply a group of Ashkenazi Jews who moved to the Middle East during the Holocaust. They’re a people who have lived in the area for thousands of years and maintained a distinct culture throughout occupation by other empires.

        • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
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          13 hours ago

          They’re a people who have lived in the area for thousands of years and maintained a distinct culture throughout occupation by other empires.

          No, these people are called Palestinians, not Israelis.

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              3 hours ago

              Where’s the lie? Have Palestinians not lived in the area for thousands of years or maintained a distinct culture, even while being occupied by other empires?

              • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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                3 hours ago

                Israelis and Palestinians have lived in the area for centuries and centuries. They’re ethnically the same, brothers and sisters. They differ by culture and the old problem (familiarity breeds contempt). I have maintained all along that both have a right to exist and to self-determination.

                But there are people here that now deny these rights to Israelis simply because Israel has a lot of military and political power right now. It’s like for them it’s not enough for Palestine to be free, they must also see Israel destroyed. And in the process they overlook the atrocities committed by Hamas (not to mention what the PLO did in Jordan decades ago).

                • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  3 hours ago

                  Again, where was the lie?

                  They’re ethnically the same, brothers and sisters

                  Not according to the state of Israel

                  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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                    2 hours ago

                    The lie was that only Palestinians have lived there for thousands of years.

                    Not according to the state of Israel

                    Correction: the government of Israel, with a ruling party (Likud, led by Bibi) which has 32/120 seats in the Knesset. That’s less than 27% of the seats. This is what you get with proportional representation and coalition government.

        • phutatorius@lemmy.zip
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          previously part of the Ottoman Empire, and long prior to that the Kingdom of Israel (around 1047-930 BCE)

          Yeah, if you look far enough back in history, nobody had autonomy or freedom, and amost everyone was subject to imperial tyranny of some kind. So what?

          One thing that’s very clear is that things said in the Bible don’t entitle anyone to take someone else’s home. It’s a holy book, not a title document.

          They’re a people who have lived in the area for thousands of years

          A small number did. Vastly more were part of the diaspora.

          I’m part of the Anglo-Saxon diaspora. That doesn’t mean I can go to Dresden and kick some family out of their house because my ancestors lived in that area over a millennium ago. Such a claim would be seen as manifestly idiotic. And if it were two millennia, such a claim would be even more absurd.

          All our ancestors originated in Africa, shall we use that as an excuse to displace some modern African people?

          • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            A small number did. Vastly more were part of the diaspora.

            That’s not true. Only 26% (and shrinking) of Israeli Jews have European ancestry. A plurality, 44% (and the fastest growing) have native Israeli ancestry. The remainder come from North Africa and Asian ancestry but all groups besides Israeli background are shrinking.

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              The study you’re referencing is looking at paternal lineage of Israelis born in Israel, not the ancestral lineage of all Israelis.

              A second-generation Israeli would be considered 'From Israel by paternal country of origin" in this census, because their paternal country of origin would be Israel.

              The bulk of immigration happened in the 1950’s-1970’s. The number of Israeli’s who’s ancestors lived in Israel before the establishment of the Israeli state isn’t a known or studied figure a definitively answered question, but it’s reasonable to assume that it’s a minority given the large migrations that happened during and after the Nakba.

              The only real information we have regarding the make-up of Palestine before its partitioning are a couple of censuses done during the British occupation, but it was during a period of time when zionist jews were already beginning to migrate. Here’s the topline:

              The census found a total population of 1,035,821 (1,033,314 excluding the numbers of H.M. Forces),[2] an increase of 36.8% since 1922, of which the Jewish population increased by 108.4%.[1]

              The population was divided by religion as follows: 759,717 Muslims, 174,610 Jews, 91,398 Christians, 9,148 Druzes, 350 Bahais, 182 Samaritans, and 421 reporting no religion.[3] A special problem was posed by the nomadic Bedouin of the south, who were reluctant to co-operate. Estimates of each tribe were made by officers of the district administration according to local observation. The total of 759,717 Muslims included 66,553 persons enumerated by that method.[4] The number of foreign British forces stationed in Palestine in 1931 totalled 2,500.[5]

        • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          There clearly are people who claim Israel (and Jews in general) as a shared identity and cultural group have no right to exist. These people are traditionally called Nazis.

          Yup, and those Nazis largely supported the Zionist mission of a Jewish state, both because they wanted the Jews to emigrate out of Europe and because they hated Arabs almost as much as they hated Jews. Nazis and Zionists share a strictly defined understanding of cultural and ethnic boundaries, and a belief that geographical boundaries are a reflection of those boundaries (or ought to). It’s only really tricky if your understanding of Zionism and Israel is limited to the specific group that is doing the cleansing.

          The Israelis aren’t simply a group of Ashkenazi Jews who moved to the Middle East during the Holocaust. They’re a people who have lived in the area for thousands of years and maintained a distinct culture throughout occupation by other empires.

          The jewish diaspora is almost as defined by their shared cultural heritage with their middle eastern neighbors as it is by their origin. You can’t draw a clean ethnic or cultural boundary around Israel that’s separate from their arabic brothers and sisters. That’s exactly the problem with zionism - it attempts to forcefully separate the cultural inheritance of its arabic history and expel it from both the geographical and cultural boundaries of Israel.

          People who oppose Israel as a Jewish state do so because they see Zionism as a mission of ethnic and cultural purification, not because it’s a symbolic representation of Jews as an entire people. That’s what makes the conflation of anti-zionism and antisemitism so nefarious.

          • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Nazis during the Holocaust might have wanted Jews deported to Israel but today’s Nazis want Israel wiped off the map and all Jews destroyed.

            You can’t draw a clean ethnic or cultural boundary around Israel that’s separate from their arabic brothers and sisters

            Not an ethnic boundary but definitely a cultural one. Judaism is very different from Islam. Palestinian culture is very different from Israeli culture.

            That’s what makes the conflation of anti-zionism and antisemitism so nefarious.

            The conflation happens on both sides of the argument. The two extremes need each other to justify themselves.

            I believe both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist. The issue is that both claim the same land and neither tolerates the other at this point. It doesn’t help that none of Israel’s neighbours want Palestinian refugees so the crisis is exacerbated to such an extreme.

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              Judaism is very different from Islam.

              Good thing the ME isn’t mono-religious

              Palestinian culture is very different from Israeli culture

              Insofar as they are both partially defined by being on either side of an apartheid state, sure. But Jews and arabs lived very peacefully in Palestine and throughout the ME long before Palestine was partitioned. The ME was full of arab-jewish communities living alongside Muslims before Israel began their immigration campaign and before pan-arab nationalism spread through the region. I highly recommend Avi Shlaim’s “Three World’s” book if you’re curious how those cultures developed alongside each other, and how they’ve changed since Israel’s establishment.

              I believe both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist.

              I believe both the people of Palestine and Israel have a right to exist, but neither have a right to exist as ethno-nationalist apartheid states.