I won’t disagree that people mostly voted against the current conditions rather than for anything in particular.
But the progressive movement is good optics along those lines, and embracing younger and more progressive folks in high visibility positions is likely a good way to extend that feeling of “hope and change”.
In practice, they may not get a lot of the agenda people would want through, but it sets a tone that things are actually being tried and makes it easier to squarely blame the president for lack of progress. At least until 2028…
Pocketbook issues are not what I see passion around on progressive-leaning lemmy. I see landlord hate (regardless of rent cost, or with magical thinking that if the hated people suffer then poof rent will go down), enthusiasm for trans people playing all sports at all levels (and if anyone has legit questions about related science they are worse than nazis), cop hate (no reform ideas, just burn them down), advocacy for violence against billionaires and CEOs (again, no reform ideas to prevent new people from doing the same evil things, and regardless if any specific act of violence would benefit anyone’s quality of life), etc.
If progressive agendas are about pocketbook issues, the majority of lemmy enthusiastics are terrible ambassadors for it.
enthusiasm for trans people playing all sports at all levels (and if anyone has legit questions about related science they are worse than nazis)
I’ve certainly never seen that. I’ve only seen people be shown the science around it and still double down on transphobic rants against it that don’t reflect the science.
The transphobes ready to do pile-on rants given the smallest openings is part of what drives the denial of science uncertainty on the pro-trans side: any admission there is more to learn is, unfortunately, not taken as nuance but instead used to springboard unfounded attacks.
density was “partially recovered” after a transgender child shifted from puberty blockers to gender-affirming hormone therapy.
The reduced bone density in recently transitioned teens is not a risk for them in their youth or middle age. The risk is that the only partially recovered density sets them up for higher rates of osteoporosis and debilitating bone fractures in their 60s and up. Definitive answers won’t be available - leaving the science unsettled - until they reach their 60s several decades from now.
Like I said, I’ve never seen a denial of science from trans people. I’ve ready many journals and studies, and they all seem to support the understanding that transitioning changes our physical abilities. Trans women often score around the same, sometimes higher, sometimes lower with other cis women in a range of variables - but overall comparable. We certainly need more studies into things such as timelines for HRT changes as studies cut-off after 3 years, or the effects of Progesterone - but the science of the sports debate is much clearer.
As for the puberty blocker/bone density thing he easy solution is to allow children to access HRT and go through the correct puberty. Puberty blockers largely exist as a political compromise with cis people over the ownership of our bodies.
Also them.us (pinknews, and one other that escape me) are considered to be a bit transphobic out of most queer media.
I wanted a smaller instance, but one with stable presence likely to be durable, and was impressed with the instance governing system. The average instance member also tends IMO to be more thoughtful and more likely to help me learn and make me think even if I disagree with their position. I am appreciative to be here as long as the flotilla will have me!
Sounds like you’re getting tunnel vision while examining the lunatic fringe under a microscope and then generalizing that as the entirety of progressivism.
It’s really just a caricature though, because the same edge lords that you’re describing would actually refer to most progressives as some variety of “neoliberal,” “shitlib,” or even “fascist.”
They’re not serious, and the left would be better off without them. In fact I think most of them are plants.
But in case you’re not just being disingenuous and you’re actually curious about progressivism, then try reading about the policies advocated for by people like Bernie Sanders, AOC, Abdul El-Sayed, etc…
And then if you tell me with a straight face that those aren’t pocketbook issues, I won’t believe you
Unfortunately the lunatic fringe is loud. The most numerous comments I read on lemmy about AOC call her a sellout for the compromises she makes to get things done for her constituents. The most numerous comments I read about Bernie are conspiracy theories about his primary loss to Hillary Clinton. El-Sayed is too new to the scene to have failed a purity test, but I am sure it will come.
I think you and I agree that the wonky full-detail policies of serious progressive politicians are pocketbook issues. My position isn’t about the wonks, though, it’s that most online people who consider themselves progressives are terrible ambassadors for the movement.
Ah. Yeah, it sounds like you need to calibrate your tankie-detector. Have a look around instances like .ml or hexbear to see what I’m talking about.
Or for a more contained view, check out the community meanwhileongrad which I think is on your instance, where they post screenshots of the crazy shit people say on lemmygrad
Or you could use the user tag feature many lemmy clients have. Just long press a username and it should be in the menu. You can color code it and give them fun labels so you know who to avoid.
It’s certainly not everyone on the threadiverse, but it is a known problem. Basically disingenuous and combative users arguing in bad faith and being unnecessarily hostile. Make good use of the block button too.
Those users don’t call themselves progressives though, they usually identify as ML (marxist-leninist) or something similar. And they fucking hate us progressives. They call us neolibs 🙄
They’re just mad because they were rooting for maga to accelerate the downfall of western society, and they’re upset that progressives are out to prove that the system can actually work for the working class.
Most of the time they’re not even worth engaging with. Occasionally you’ll meet a rational .ml user who just happened to choose that instance for whatever reason, but they certainly seem to be the exception rather than the rule
Thank you.
All these people are acting like the war is over and we can stop fighting the GOP.
Trump still has the veto and if gas prices don’t come down this year’s win will be a blip.
And if Democrats don’t deliver on a progressive agenda then the voters won’t turn out for them in future elections.
We can do multiple things at once, that’s why Congress has committees.
Serious question.
What makes you think that most voters care about a progressive agenda?
Every election I’ve seen makes me think that pocketbook issues are the most important.
I won’t disagree that people mostly voted against the current conditions rather than for anything in particular.
But the progressive movement is good optics along those lines, and embracing younger and more progressive folks in high visibility positions is likely a good way to extend that feeling of “hope and change”.
In practice, they may not get a lot of the agenda people would want through, but it sets a tone that things are actually being tried and makes it easier to squarely blame the president for lack of progress. At least until 2028…
A progressive agenda is all about pocketbook issues.
You cannot be serious. Are you being disingenuous or are you truly this ill-informed?
Pocketbook issues are not what I see passion around on progressive-leaning lemmy. I see landlord hate (regardless of rent cost, or with magical thinking that if the hated people suffer then poof rent will go down), enthusiasm for trans people playing all sports at all levels (and if anyone has legit questions about related science they are worse than nazis), cop hate (no reform ideas, just burn them down), advocacy for violence against billionaires and CEOs (again, no reform ideas to prevent new people from doing the same evil things, and regardless if any specific act of violence would benefit anyone’s quality of life), etc.
If progressive agendas are about pocketbook issues, the majority of lemmy enthusiastics are terrible ambassadors for it.
I’ve certainly never seen that. I’ve only seen people be shown the science around it and still double down on transphobic rants against it that don’t reflect the science.
The transphobes ready to do pile-on rants given the smallest openings is part of what drives the denial of science uncertainty on the pro-trans side: any admission there is more to learn is, unfortunately, not taken as nuance but instead used to springboard unfounded attacks.
The unfairness of the situation doesn’t make the science actually settled, though. For example, even a pro-trans site (https://www.them.us/answers-and-advice/health/puberty-blockers-bone-density) defense of puberty blockers dropping bone density is that
The reduced bone density in recently transitioned teens is not a risk for them in their youth or middle age. The risk is that the only partially recovered density sets them up for higher rates of osteoporosis and debilitating bone fractures in their 60s and up. Definitive answers won’t be available - leaving the science unsettled - until they reach their 60s several decades from now.
Like I said, I’ve never seen a denial of science from trans people. I’ve ready many journals and studies, and they all seem to support the understanding that transitioning changes our physical abilities. Trans women often score around the same, sometimes higher, sometimes lower with other cis women in a range of variables - but overall comparable. We certainly need more studies into things such as timelines for HRT changes as studies cut-off after 3 years, or the effects of Progesterone - but the science of the sports debate is much clearer.
As for the puberty blocker/bone density thing he easy solution is to allow children to access HRT and go through the correct puberty. Puberty blockers largely exist as a political compromise with cis people over the ownership of our bodies.
Also them.us (pinknews, and one other that escape me) are considered to be a bit transphobic out of most queer media.
are you doing a bit, or did you sign up for the wrong instance?
I wanted a smaller instance, but one with stable presence likely to be durable, and was impressed with the instance governing system. The average instance member also tends IMO to be more thoughtful and more likely to help me learn and make me think even if I disagree with their position. I am appreciative to be here as long as the flotilla will have me!
Sounds like you’re getting tunnel vision while examining the lunatic fringe under a microscope and then generalizing that as the entirety of progressivism.
It’s really just a caricature though, because the same edge lords that you’re describing would actually refer to most progressives as some variety of “neoliberal,” “shitlib,” or even “fascist.”
They’re not serious, and the left would be better off without them. In fact I think most of them are plants.
But in case you’re not just being disingenuous and you’re actually curious about progressivism, then try reading about the policies advocated for by people like Bernie Sanders, AOC, Abdul El-Sayed, etc…
And then if you tell me with a straight face that those aren’t pocketbook issues, I won’t believe you
Unfortunately the lunatic fringe is loud. The most numerous comments I read on lemmy about AOC call her a sellout for the compromises she makes to get things done for her constituents. The most numerous comments I read about Bernie are conspiracy theories about his primary loss to Hillary Clinton. El-Sayed is too new to the scene to have failed a purity test, but I am sure it will come.
I think you and I agree that the wonky full-detail policies of serious progressive politicians are pocketbook issues. My position isn’t about the wonks, though, it’s that most online people who consider themselves progressives are terrible ambassadors for the movement.
Ah. Yeah, it sounds like you need to calibrate your tankie-detector. Have a look around instances like .ml or hexbear to see what I’m talking about.
Or for a more contained view, check out the community meanwhileongrad which I think is on your instance, where they post screenshots of the crazy shit people say on lemmygrad
Or you could use the user tag feature many lemmy clients have. Just long press a username and it should be in the menu. You can color code it and give them fun labels so you know who to avoid.
It’s certainly not everyone on the threadiverse, but it is a known problem. Basically disingenuous and combative users arguing in bad faith and being unnecessarily hostile. Make good use of the block button too.
Those users don’t call themselves progressives though, they usually identify as ML (marxist-leninist) or something similar. And they fucking hate us progressives. They call us neolibs 🙄
They’re just mad because they were rooting for maga to accelerate the downfall of western society, and they’re upset that progressives are out to prove that the system can actually work for the working class.
Most of the time they’re not even worth engaging with. Occasionally you’ll meet a rational .ml user who just happened to choose that instance for whatever reason, but they certainly seem to be the exception rather than the rule