• PotatoLibre@feddit.it
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    3 days ago

    It’s what many says, Europe needs Ukraine for many reasons and a big one is (sadly), their knowledge about a mordern war.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      “We need people from this big war to fight the next big war!” is the line of thinking that’s going to burn everything to the ground, just like it did a century ago.

      Between Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Iran, Britain floating warships off the coast of China, Indian and Pakistan firing on one another, North Africa in a decade long bloodbath, the US sending marines to suppress unrest in local cities… its not good folks.

      • PotatoLibre@feddit.it
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        1 day ago

        Europe has not been aggresive at all. Being ready doesn’t mean you want to go to war.

        Many are against reaming Europe, thinking weapon = war, but it’s not that simple. Nuke are scaring as hell, but we haven’t had such a long period of peace before nuke came.

          • PotatoLibre@feddit.it
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            16 hours ago

            Good god, I’m talking about today, and I’m confronting EU against Russia, USA or China.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            1 day ago

            Pray tell, how many times without explicit invitation/request by local government?

            Because last I checked when the Sahel states wanted them gone they packed up and left. And then things went to shit quite quickly: In some areas Wagner has an even worse reputation among the civilian population than Jihadis (now that is an achievement), and figures because Wagner is not there to fix anything but to make money by “protecting” natural resources they don’t care much about fighting the Jihadis, either. France never shied away from throwing down with them, where they were reluctant is stomping Tuaregs, instead opting for endless negotiations and mediating. Which is perfectly sensible because the Tuareg are sane, they want stuff like autonomy within their regions, not massacre people.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              16 hours ago

              Because last I checked when the Sahel states wanted them gone they packed up and left.

              Check again.

              Operation Barkhane dragged on for eight years. It sparked domestic protests within the first two years. By the end, the Sahel states were in full revolt against French occupation.

              France never shied away from throwing down with them, where they were reluctant is stomping Tuaregs, instead opting for endless negotiations and mediating.

              The problem is with your language. You seem to think dropping 200 lb bombs on a city to wipe whole neighborhoods off the map constitutes “throwing down”, like its a bar room brawl everyone will walk away from in the morning. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge that they killed thousands of civilians. A 9/11s worth of people, to put it in a parlance you might appreciate.

              And much like in Israel and the US occupation of Iraq/Afghanistan, the response from French allies was always “those civilians had it coming”.

              That is what spurred widespread opposition to Françafrique policy.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                14 hours ago

                By the end, the Sahel states were in full revolt against French occupation.

                There a) was no occupation and b) not even the Putschists were in “full revolt”.

                You seem to think dropping 200 lb bombs on a city to wipe whole neighborhoods off the map constitutes “throwing down”

                You seem to be talking about the Russian main forces (which aren’t in the Sahel), not France. Heck, Americans, but again, not France. France drops training ammunition instead of actual bombs on Hilluxes and when Americans make fun of them (“they ran out of ammo”) the French shrug and say “Concrete slabs are perfectly sufficient for pickup trucks”. It’s baked into their core doctrine, they supply their troops with what is necessary, but not more, because they want them to be audacious.

                Are you referring to the Bounti airstrike? Like in you strg+f “controversial” and found something? Then just assumed the 200lb and “whole neighbourhoods”? This is Bounti.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  13 hours ago

                  There a) was no occupation

                  The French Defense Minister Florence Parly announced in February 2020 that France would send an additional 600 troops to the Sahel region, bolstering Operation Barkhanes’ force to 5,100 troops.

                  b) not even the Putschists were in “full revolt”.

                  More and more voices are being raised against the presence of the French soldiers of Operation Barkhane, despite the lack of alternatives.

                  You’re either deeply misinformed or deliberately lying.

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                    13 hours ago

                    And… where’s the revolt? Did you read your source? Did you even check the date? What it said about the opinion of the Mali military?

                    As said: The French left once uninvited by the government. Who are Putschists but meh that’s usual down there, and not likely to change without a prolonged period of stability. I do expect another Putsch to come in soonish as they’re not getting things handled either, as said Wagner is often worse than the Jihadis, and on top of that Russia is way overextended as it is. Won’t take long until they can’t supply their goons down there.

                    Did you, btw, read up on Russia’s media campaign down there. The French are arrogant, no doubt, but that’s different from wanting to rule the area or wishing it ill. What you can legitimately blame them for is a disinterest in building up those states, training their militaries, enable them to secure their own territory on their own. Russia saw an opening for its actually colonial ambitions and went for it.