- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
China’s armed forces secretly trained about 200 Russian military personnel in China late last year and some have since returned to fight in Ukraine, according to three European intelligence agencies and documents seen by Reuters.
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Trained on what?
Cardboard cutouts or Ukrainian kids or something?
Is that specialized training they would need to go to China for?
I wonder what weapons system they were trained to use?
China hasn’t been in a real war in decades, there isn’t a lot Russia could learn in the way of tactics from them. Fancy new kit that needs training to use sounds far more plausible.
The other option is that China provides the resources for training, in return for Russia owing them something. I know they’ve previously given them stuff for the option to buy oil at the same price Russians do, which is not profitable for them. Presumably they’re also going to take control of some land eventually. There’s a few pieces they’ve been wanting control of, and I think they do have some now.
Everyone needs to remember, Russia and China are not really allies. They’re generally on the same side, but they don’t provide things for free by any means. If China is doing something for Russia, they’re getting something out of it. This could have just purely been a “we provide shelter, food, space, and basic training, you give us…” deal.
I see no problem here. The Ukrainian army was trained in the west too
Not the same thing. Russia is a brutal invader, Ukraine is defending it’s sovereignty
Russia is the one defending itself in front of Nato expansion but this is not a conversation you are ready for
you’re such a vatnik limp dick dipshit bitch
You have no arguments to support your imperialist country and resort to this
It’s incredible that you could frame a literal imperial invasion of Ukraine by Russia as everyone else being imperialist. It’s just completely ignorant and has all the energy and logic of a trump decree.
Russia and the Soviet Union has a very long history of imperialism and colonization and, if that sort of thing bothers you, you should be critical of Russia.
Ussr wan never colonialist, in fact they tried to help Korea Vietnam, Afghanistan burhina Faso against imperialism.
Russia was faced with tho very hard decision. Act as an aggressor now or wait to be invaded later. They would have been portrayed as villains either way so they took the right one
Does eastern and central Europe post WW2 not exist to you or something?
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Look up the word “defending” and compare it to the word “invasion”. Those are two different things and I think maybe you got mixed up somehow. But maybe you’re not yet ready to hear that.
Nato was preparing to set up bases in ukraine. Given the flat terrain Russia would have been invaded In the future. They had to act now
There you have it folks, the dumbest propagandist in all of Lemmy.
The only one with a brain in a sea of idiots
And what plans were there for Ukraine to join NATO prior to the invasion? None? Zero? The deal was already that Ukraine was a neutral buffer zone so the big strong USSR wouldn’t wet their underwear? Did ruzzia show their hand that no country is safe from an invasion regardless of if their in NATO or not? Yes I think they did! They did show they are warmongering dictators.
Ukrayne was on that path before 2014 just like all other nations from eastern Europe. Ukrayne was a red line that Russia could not ignore
Russia is the fat alcoholic abusive ex that doesn’t want to see his ex girlfriend moving on with a decent fella.
The best outcome of this war and the one in Iran is that it shows us that the big imperial powers old school methods of power projection are losing relevance as a result of cheap drone warfare.
Russia absolutely could have ignored Ukraine leaving its sphere of influence, in fact they would be in a much better economic and demographic situation had they ignored it.
If it wasn’t for the brave Ukrainians being killed by Russia this war would almost be comical given how terribly the Russian armed forces have performed. Failure after failure, I don’t think Russia has much left in the tank. A smart ruler would give up now and consolidate but Putin’s life is on the line here if he does not achieve some form of “victory”. So Vladimir Put Put is going to drag the Russian nation down to hell with him while the Russian population of cucks cry “I am not political!”
Good riddance to bad orcs, back to the dirt you came from. Even sunflowers won’t grow from your alcohol/krokodil ravaged corpses. I hope Putin dies screaming like the Russian soldiers in the lens of an FPV drone.
well said!
This is extremely stupid. The standard of living collapsed after the fall of the ussr.
All that the west has done was to destabilize the eastern Europe and the middle east after that to project their power. If Putin wouldn’t have come to power in the early 2000s Russia would probably be a vassal state of the west now and China would not be where it is today.
Now on the war part. Ua economy and army was completely replaced by the west. Ua actions make me believe that the west wants to collapse Russia. Instead they are the one being embarrassed. Russia not only did not lose but is still advancing in ua territory despite the 809bn from the west.
On top of that the economies are collapsing in the west. Many countries chose to ditch us bonds for Chinese ones after the sanctions applied to russia.
What is happening in Iran is proof that Europe does not afford to open another front
Enjoy the collapse of the western empire
Their standard of living wasn’t too hot during the USSR either as Russia plundered the submissive, subservient states within the short lived “Soviet Union”. Russia brutally oppressed the nations of Eastern Europe to the point where they all now hate Russia’s guys with a passion. Don’t even get me started on the poorly thought out brand of communism they employed and the idiotic state policies.
If Putin wouldn’t have come to power in the early 2000s Russia would probably be a vassal state of the west
This is conjecture and speculation on your part with no proof to back it up, typical of your lot. Putin and his cronies have robbed the nation of Russia blind. All of those mega yachts, palaces and London property doesn’t come cheap. Imagine Russia was led by someone who was not a mafia boss? That fool Putin has wasted the Russian wealth fund on his colonial adventures with nothing to show for it.
China would not be where it is today
Without Putin? Come on dude, that is a hilarious take, China’s rise started way before Putin and he had nothing to do with it. I remember a time when Russia was the senior partner to China, Russia is now China’s vassal, dependant on China for 90% of technological imports. China has Russia by the balls, I’m sure you are happier being a vassal of China than the west.
Ua actions make me believe that the west wants to collapse Russia.
Russia and Putin brought this war on themselves. Europe and NATO never had the goal of a collapsed failed state Russia with vodka drenched immigrants and rogue nukes on its border. The EU and especially Germany fought for good relations and trade. Russia spat in our faces and now faces the consequences.
Russia not only did not lose but is still advancing in ua territory
You clearly aren’t watching the right war. Even the Russian milibloggers and mappers concede that Russia has been either static or losing territory for months now.
This is before we get into the Russian losses of influence in Syria, Venezuela and Mali. Russia is no longer seen as a strong or reliable partner.
Many countries chose to ditch us bonds for Chinese ones after the sanctions applied to russia.
No countries did this in support of Russia my delusional friend. Russia is still seen as the aggressor in an illegal land grab.
What is happening in Iran is proof that Europe does not afford to open another front
I’m trying to make sense of the slop of a sentence you wrote here. Who would Europe be opening up another front with in this scenario in addition to their proxy war with Russia?
Enjoy the collapse of the western empire
Enjoy being a drama queen while you gargle Putin’s balls. I would be delighted to see all the imperial powers collapse.
Lmao thanks for revealing yourself as an utter idiot. To the block list!
I hear no arguments
Apparently thinking isn’t something you’re ready for.
I do think unlike the masses of Reddit
We’re not on reddit.
Yet I find the same neoliberal hivemind
Maybe it’s worth thinking about why Russia’s neighbours are so desperately eager to band together in mutual defense against them.
Glancing at a history book might help.
Because their governments are run by western imperial interests
Not unexpected since China is an ally of Russia. But Europe can exploit this by urging China to get Russia to accept a peace proposal. Europe should tell China that with peace Ukraine can do business with China. This is what Europe should propose to Putin. Russia will withdraw from all land it seized from Ukraine after the 2022 invasion. NATO would be dissolved and replaced with a European alliance. Ukraine and Canada would be permitted to join but not the US. All sanctions against Russia will be lifted. Russia will not be required to pay reparations. If Putin doesn’t accept the proposal, the UK and France would send troops to Ukraine.
I don’t think you understand what’s going on. China is not losing in this. They’re winning. Russia needs their help, and they provide it… for a fee. They’re getting incredibly cheap oil, more power over Russia, resources, and I think some land has slightly shifted towards China that was contested. I expect China to make huge gains from this war. If they don’t end up at least de facto, if not de jure, controlling a tons of land in Eastern Russia at the end of this, I’ll be surprised.
China and Russia aren’t allies in the usually sense. They don’t assist each other for free. They just have similar opponents, but will extract whatever they can from each other without a second thought. They have no desire to help the other, except when it benefits them directly.
Even without the war China would still get cheap oil from Russia. Putin is expending huge resources in attempting to take Ukraine, it’s not going to give any land to China. A Ukraine at peace would provide business opportunities for Chinese businesses.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. They’re getting to purchase it at the same cost as Russians do, which is below cost. This is an agreement Russia made with them in exchange for some support (I don’t remember what, it was a while ago).
A Ukraine at peace would provide business opportunities for Chinese businesses.
OK, and it’ll be there whenever it finishes too. Hell, it’s there now. This is a stupid argument. It’s not like there are a lack of places to invest in.
It’s a selling point that Europe would tell China to get it to persuade Putin to end the war. If China refuses, then Europe would end it on its own. Remember in my proposal, if Putin rejects the offer, the UK and France would send troops to Ukraine.
What a shit deal. Ukraine would be dumb to accept it.
Why would it be a shit deal?
Why should they drop reperations? Why should European Alliance be forced to prohibit the US from joining? There’s no reason for those demands.
The reason is to entice Putin to accept the proposal.
Why don’t you offer him Ukraine then, lift all senctions, dissolve NATO, dissolve EU, dissolve the US and maybe blow his Johnson personally? He surely will accept that.
In an agreement, each party will not get everything they want. An example is an agreement between a union and the employer. In my proposal, Putin will be given incentives that will save face. Putin will be able to tell Russians that he successfully removed the threat of NATO.
So I can start an attack and then for me to stop you have to give me something because that’s how compromising works???
China is an ally of Russia
That’s not true in any meaningful sense of the word.
Then why are they helping each other?
China is getting advantage of a situation like they always do, getting a bunch of resources basically for free. Russia is desperate for any technology, so they’re happily exchanging future of their country for access to a market of cheap toys.
It’s not an allyship in any sense.
Why would China want a renewed imperialist alliance?
It wouldn’t be an alliance. China would simply be urging Putin to end the war because Ukraine would present business opportunities for it.
The European Alliance would be an alliance by definition
Read my proposal again. China would not be part of the European alliance, only European countries and Canada.
I think they are asking "Why would China want an alliance IT WON’T be a part of?
China would simply want to end the war because Ukraine at peace would be a good opportunity for Chinese businesses.
