Has actual democracy ever been implemented anywhere, seems to me, every democratic country is run by a group of rich people, with a nominally elected puppet politicians, to make the ordinary citizens think they have a say in things
Athens had sortition, which was interesting. Everyone participated in the government via a lottery and the average person’s issues would be likely (statistically speaking) to be focused on and addressed.
It’s been tried a few other times much later in history, but they always limited who could be chosen in the lottery (generally, only rich people). The original system which worked well selected among everyone.
That sounds like a fun time. In modern day though I’d hope the selected representatives would have professional aides, especially where I am given your average American is practically illiterate. (It’d probably work better in Japan, lol.)
Ya, they absolutely could/should. A good example today is how a judge is present in a trial to explain the process, law, what’s required for jurors. You could have a similar advisory body which provides recommendations based on their expertise.
There are definitely countries who have done a better job, but remember that the right-wing is always authoritarian and is constantly trying to throw a wrench in democracy. Some countries are able to patch those holes fast, but when the country is very large, in the case of the USA, there are tiny holes popping up all over the place. Eventually it starts to sink and we can’t even tell how.
Left wing governments can be authoritarian too. It’s a concept that spans the left-right divide. You can be a authoritarian centrist if you’re prepared to enforce adherence to your values. It’s just that you probably don’t need to be.
In my option it’s the extremes that need to be authoritarian because nobody would put up with their shit unless they were forced to.
Communism as Engels described it is the abolition of private property. Everything is free to all. However the result is a society with no form or structure.
If you want a loaf of bread you go to a baker, right?
Since you own nothing, you cannot trade for the loaf.
Therefore bread must be free and the baker must give the bread to you and everyone else in the community.
The baker feels he’s getting a raw deal. It’s a lot of work and he has little time for himself.
Tomorrow he decides he’s had enough of baking. He becomes a sculptor reusing his ovens as a kiln.
The community, bereft of bread and starving, rises up against the former baker forcing them to bake the bread community needs.
Now we have forced labour.
And that’s just bread. What about the people that do all the jobs we don’t want to do? Collect rubbish, maintain sewers, or mine minerals?
Communism leads to one of three outcomes IMHO:
All are equal but because no one can rely on the community for anything everyone must be self-sufficient. Human society regresses back to hunter gathering.
People are forced into working roles they don’t want to do to support the broader community. Some people decide those roles (Ruling class). Some people enforce those roles (Enforcing class). Everyone else is subject to those roles (Working Class). An authoritarian totalitarian state.
You give people doing vital jobs needed by the community some kind of recompense. If it’s someTHING you give them, well that’s now private property and you’ll get a trading system soon after. If it’s power or privilege, you’ve invented a class system.
So to answer your question…anything that looks like communism because I don’t see how it doesn’t end in disaster. …and I’m fine with Socialism. I think the ideal is a socialist/capitalist balance.
Has actual democracy ever been implemented anywhere, seems to me, every democratic country is run by a group of rich people, with a nominally elected puppet politicians, to make the ordinary citizens think they have a say in things
Athens had sortition, which was interesting. Everyone participated in the government via a lottery and the average person’s issues would be likely (statistically speaking) to be focused on and addressed.
We still use it today to select jurors. But it was originally for everything. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
It’s been tried a few other times much later in history, but they always limited who could be chosen in the lottery (generally, only rich people). The original system which worked well selected among everyone.
Well, everyone who wasn’t a slave, or foreign, or a woman,or… etc.
That sounds like a fun time. In modern day though I’d hope the selected representatives would have professional aides, especially where I am given your average American is practically illiterate. (It’d probably work better in Japan, lol.)
Ya, they absolutely could/should. A good example today is how a judge is present in a trial to explain the process, law, what’s required for jurors. You could have a similar advisory body which provides recommendations based on their expertise.
There are definitely countries who have done a better job, but remember that the right-wing is always authoritarian and is constantly trying to throw a wrench in democracy. Some countries are able to patch those holes fast, but when the country is very large, in the case of the USA, there are tiny holes popping up all over the place. Eventually it starts to sink and we can’t even tell how.
Left wing governments can be authoritarian too. It’s a concept that spans the left-right divide. You can be a authoritarian centrist if you’re prepared to enforce adherence to your values. It’s just that you probably don’t need to be.
In my option it’s the extremes that need to be authoritarian because nobody would put up with their shit unless they were forced to.
What do you consider a left wing extreme that you wouldn’t put up with?
Well… Communism.
Communism as Engels described it is the abolition of private property. Everything is free to all. However the result is a society with no form or structure.
If you want a loaf of bread you go to a baker, right?
And that’s just bread. What about the people that do all the jobs we don’t want to do? Collect rubbish, maintain sewers, or mine minerals?
Communism leads to one of three outcomes IMHO:
So to answer your question…anything that looks like communism because I don’t see how it doesn’t end in disaster. …and I’m fine with Socialism. I think the ideal is a socialist/capitalist balance.
Can you name these countries. I wanna check if they are open to immigration
Although, do pay attention to neighboring countries.